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Re:The Battle of GameStop by ollifi on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @05:31AM (#25914294)
/r/wsb is kind of insanity, but I’ve come to think that maybe young person can YOLO a bit against the odds somewhere in life. If something returns poorly on average, but has high payouts at the top it might just work out. Your life won’t be the average case but single sample.

Lottery is too improbable but some other things ”no rational person would do” can be ok. Main thing is to get over with it soon and protect the downside.

Of course if you get lucky you need to be contempt with the nice head start and switch strategy to doing the boring rational things. Not sure if these qualities are often found in one person.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by 55555 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:12AM (#25915396)
> I’ve come to think that maybe young person can YOLO a bit against the odds somewhere in life. If something returns poorly on average, but has high payouts at the top it might just work out. Your life won’t be the average case but single sample.

This is indeed, after all, a website about founding startups.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by toomuchtodo on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:43PM (#25920223)
The only difference between being a founder and gambling is the social signaling. In both cases, luck is a larger component than grit (lots of amazing folks have failed through no fault of their own).

No shame in gambling your way to wealth if you don't care about the social signaling.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by RhodoGSA on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:02PM (#25930610)
Social signaling must come from the person doing the signaling. In my experience people who've made life changing money off crypto this last couple months say they are 'investors' or have a couple of 'business'. Never would they say it was all luck or I gambled my way to the top. They saw a trend, they bet one it and they were payed for voting with their wallet. Although you call it 'gambling' someone else might call it 'insight' or 'Voting with your wallet' in the case of crypto.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by toomuchtodo on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:07PM (#25930675)
All good points. In the end, sentiment is a shared delusion.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by whythre on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @08:42AM (#25928120)
I am going to push back on this. Creating something of value is better than gambling, which is why founders have more prestige than lotto winners. Even if luck is a significant component to success, it isn’t the only component.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by toomuchtodo on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @10:39AM (#25929512)
Value is subjective. Wealth is objective and tangible.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by kyawzazaw on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @07:49PM (#25922882)
I bet there is some sort of positive social signaling in gambling your way to wealth as long as you succeed
Re:The Battle of GameStop by silexia on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:25AM (#25924959)
Anyone else notice that WSB reads like a religion? And that Trump supporters have faith without evidence, just like religion?

Perhaps most humans cannot truly be atheists, but will always be caught by something to believe in.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by gchamonlive on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @08:39AM (#25915612)
I think I understood your use of the word `contempt` because it is similar to `contente` in my mother-langauge (portuguese). However, I don't believe `contempt` assumes the meaning of `satisfied`, instead it is defined as `having a strong feeling of disliking and having no respect for someone or something`.

In any case, I have mixed feelings about in which direction society is heading.

On the one hand, I think this game of social ascension is the same as before, only the dream changed: we have no illusions of having a well paid job that affords us house, cars and a big family, at least not without acquiring a huge debt.

On the other hand, on average, we have much more access to information. The average joe is much more educated and have higher buying power than 100 years ago.

I think we can't really look at the present comparing with what once was, because we live in a time of its own. We have to reassess the current configuration, fight to keep what we acquired in terms of freedom and equality, but try to fix the perceived feeling of separation, loneliness and helplessness together.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by enigmo on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:13AM (#25915921)
it's probably just a typo, in context this reads like `content` not `contempt`.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by gchamonlive on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @10:31PM (#25923904)
True, I didn't know this word existed like that. I would have been skeptical to use it, since it is so similar to the word in portuguese.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by gruez on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:38AM (#25916187)
>If something returns poorly on average, but has high payouts at the top it might just work out. Your life won’t be the average case but single sample.

This almost certainly results in a worse average outcome, because of diminishing returns on income. Winning a 10M jackpot won't bring you 10,000 times the happiness compared to finding $1000 on the ground.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by glazyrin on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:40PM (#25919559)
I think this is a truism which doesn't always apply.

Suppose that there are 1,000 basement-dwelling redditors (okay, it's a caricature). Each has their basic needs taken care of, but not much money, and not much scope to improve their lot in life. What little money they have doesn't get invested, but spent frivolously.

Suppose 1,000 such people could all put in $500 and give it to a randomly selected one of them. That person wins a life-changing amount of money. They suddenly have their prospects upgraded - they can travel, buy a house, live in some comfort, pursue a dream career. Couldn't it arguably be rational for all 1,000 to participate in that game? Doesn't it make sense that the utility curve is convex, not concave - that $500,000 is more than 1,000 times better than $500, when compared to $0?

After all, suppose that $500 was a year's spare income. Even saving for most of a lifetime would only yield $20-30,000, nothing like enough for many of the opportunities that half a million would make possible. And a lump sum at age 65 could be much less useful than one at age 25. Losing the $500 might barely make a difference to one's quality of life.

Now suppose that to participate in this lottery, they have to pay 10% of the money to Wall Street, or high frequency market makers, or whoever. Couldn't it still be a rational choice for each of the 1,000 to participate?

Re:The Battle of GameStop by kbenson on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:55PM (#25919731)
This is just the flip side of why people support progressive taxes. If you believe that a flat tax is unfair because the people at the lower end of the spectrum have much less free money that isn't taken up by base needs, then it follows that different amounts of money affect people in different circumstances differently.

To the person with 10 million dollars, doubling their wealth is nice for them but likely won't result in a major change in lifestyle and what they could or couldn't do before. Maybe they go from a large house to a larger house. For the person that makes 30 thousand a year, doubling it makes a huge difference in how they live. The disposable income amount doesn't double, it's likely many many times higher, because it was such a relatively small portion before.

The same thing applies to one-time payments. It would make sense in your example even if the payout was much less (like $10k) but still affected the group similarly (i.e. if they had less disposable income). That amount of money is a huge to people that have little disposable income.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by kangaroozach on Thursday January 28, 2021 @04:14AM (#25939859)
All good points, but I think most real flat tax proposals have zero tax on your “base need” income. Imagine no taxes on first $40k of income... Then a flat tax above that.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by glazyrin on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:05PM (#25919852)
I completely agree, with the precision that there can be huge difference between two people with a similar amount of money, if one has most of their needs take care of (ie 'broke' but not 'poor') and the other will suffer severe consequences of they run out of money.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by gruez on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:12PM (#25919919)
>What little money they have doesn't get invested, but spent frivolously.

The implication you're making here is that these people wouldn't mind losing $500/year, because it's otherwise being spent "frivolously". I don't think this is true because if you're spending it on something, you're getting joy out of it, otherwise you wouldn't be spending money on it in the first place. For reference, $500 can buy you a game console or several games, which can provide you with tens or hundreds of hours of entertainment.

If it's really the case that the $500/year is being spent frivolously (ie. being spent on things that don't bring joy), then the correct course of action would be some sort of intervention that forces them to save, so they receive a large enough lump sum that can be used productively. We sort of see this happen with tax refunds, where people are basically forced to save throughout most of the year, the IRS gives it back at the end of the year, and they spurge the refund on a big purchase.

>Doesn't it make sense that the utility curve is convex, not concave - that $500,000 is more than 1,000 times better than $500, when compared to $0?

What makes you think that? I think it's generally accepted that money has a diminishing returns on happiness. I guess if you go to the extremes there's some ranges where it doesn't apply (eg. it's hard to do anything fun with a $5 bill), but there's also nothing preventing you from saving up the money.

>After all, suppose that $500 was a year's spare income. Even saving for most of a lifetime would only yield $20-30,000, nothing like enough for many of the opportunities that half a million would make possible.

You're off by a factor of 2. Factoring in a 6% inflation adjusted return, you end up with a return of $77,380 if you do this for 40 years.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by glazyrin on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:24PM (#25920027)
You seem to believe that saving is a virtue, that you get what you pay for, that interest rates have a natural level much higher than zero, and in 'diminishing returns'. I accept that you and many other people believe in those things, but I don't think they are universally believed in, not particularly supported by evidence.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by imtringued on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @03:26PM (#25920631)
Saving isn't a virtue. You need a healthy balance between savings and spending. The economy is like a power grid. You cannot save labor. Any work that is currently done has to be consumed within a short time frame. Food rots. Technology gets obsolete.
Re:The Battle of GameStop by kyawzazaw on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @07:50PM (#25922890)
Maybe if you are thinking in terms of being able to purchase things and financial security.

Things that bring me joy are being able to donate enormously to solve social problems in my quality. I can say for certainty that it will bring me 10,000 times happiness.

Re:The Battle of GameStop by jmchuster on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @04:40PM (#25921393)
i don't know about that, if you're going from barely making rent or just straight up homeless, to never worrying about money again, the multiplier might be even more