#1 is because Americans spend way to much time at work, so much time that it's difficult to find time to socialize out of work. People are social animals so they'll increase their interaction there (also lowering productivity in office).

I think WFH coupled with reduced hour days or 4 day weeks would be a much better combo for high productivity in the office.

Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.

> Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.

There are many places and jobs in the US where people start work at 8 or even 7. That seems to be functions of both industry and region.

The regional effects are strong. I’ve only done software, but even within that narrow domain I’ve seen a 4 hour difference. The west coast specifically seems to bias super late, and I was shocked when I joined $EMPLOYER that the norm was roughly 11am to 7pm.

Start at 7 means getting up really early, so for a good night sleep you have to go to bed halfway through the evening.

The hour you start at makes no difference to how much you work.

I suspect the issue here is schools. Most parents might work 9-5, but schools often start as early as 7-8am, which means the parents (or at least a parent) needs to get up early enough to coordinate for school and also work until 5pm.

Where is that? My only other living experience outside of America has been Europe, and Europe seemed to start later and stay later compared with America(sans SF, SF is a special place where everyone goes to bed early and wakes up late).

Also Europe but as the sibling comment said, this kind of thing is very region specific. Over here school starting at 7am is pretty normal. Probably more so than 8am and no one starts at 9am. Lots of jobs also start 7am. So people get up earlier. Even for jobs that are not as time sensitive as IT, people being at work at 7am or earlier is completely normal, especially if they have kids.

Plenty of places start at 8. I've worked at a couple. Sometimes got in trouble for being late too, since I struggle to get moving in the morning. I seem to work best when I get to start at 9:30 or 10am.

"9 to 5" kind of became the expression. The reality in maybe most places that have formal hours is 8 or 8:30 to 5 with "unpaid" lunchtime in the middle.

Sure, but I’d like to have friends at work and friends outside of work. Nothing wrong with job hopping either: if you make a good friend, you’ll keep on connecting even after you switch jobs.

I’m not sure why everyone is interpreting me as having said “having friends at work is bad”. That’s obviously a silly statement, which is why I didn’t make it.

Depending on work for socialization is bad. That’s what I’m arguing against.

Good point. Even pre-Covid, I think most people don't have much of a third place. It's work or home for the majority of socialization, and maybe the occasional hang out or outdoorsy activity with friends.

i think there's a balance. i agree that having friends outside the workplace is important, but i don't see why that means making friends in the workplace is bad. we have friends that we see during the workday and occasionally see outside the workplace, then we have friends for all the other time.

Making friends in the work place isn’t bad; I didn’t say that and such an assertion would be obviously silly.

Depending on work for social interactions is bad. That is what I’m seeing more of, and that is something I think should change.