News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by simple_phrases on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:29PM (#25884248)
ML is really good at picking up anomalies, and that is scary if, say, law enforcement or prosecutors are doing dragnet surveillance for anomalies in order to drum up charges.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by kyleblarson on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:28PM (#25886721)
What is even scarier is the likelihood of law enforcement agencies buying tech from fly-by-night companies who will use all of the buzzwords in their sales pitches (AI, ML, big data, etc) but who have no real knowledge of such things and are just selling a shit product that will entrap innocents.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by tyfon on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:40PM (#25886819)
You will end up with "Computer says no" situations if there are no knowledgable humans that review the decisions from the models.

It's really no different in banks but they are regulated and must provide proper reasoning to denied customers for the models they use in my country. It's not enough to say "your score is too low".

It's very easy to create artificial stupidity!

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by exporectomy on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:29PM (#25886296)
They already do that with their human brains. I've been stopped by the police for:

- Sitting in a parked car in a suburban street for too long.

- Going shopping at 2am.

- Walking under a bridge at night.

It's OK as long as they quickly realize you're harmless and leave you alone.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by ficklepickle on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:42PM (#25886433)
Policing in the USA, to a nearby outsider, appears to be more about enforcing societal norms than safety or laws.

It seems to me they harass anyone they perceive to be abnormal.

As a delightfully abnormal human, I'm very glad I was born just north of the 49th parallel. It's not perfect, but I do feel free to be myself.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by sneak on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:03PM (#25886568)
As a weird person who grew up in the USA (and eventually left for just this reason), I can attest to the accuracy of this analysis.

I even wrote about it recently: https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-ame...

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by YuccaGloriosa on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:36AM (#25889609)
That font on your article looks awful on my phone
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by lawnchair_larry on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:57PM (#25886915)
This is just wrong on so many levels. You even included the widely debunked (even by her own colleagues!) Nikole Hannah-Jones 1619 project lies. Cops do not care if you are “weird”.

Police do in fact exist to enforce the law. It really is that simple.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:36PM (#25887180)
That's a nice fantasy. They're supposed to enforce broken laws. It isn't unusual for them to abuse their power with mental gymnastics to violate the civil rights of law abiding citizens.

I've had two illegal stops in the past year because in one I took a swig from a soda bottle going by a speed trap and the cop wanted to see if it was alcohol. The other, a cop in an unmarked car tried to run me out of my lane to follow a speeder.

Some years ago I had to deal with a small town gumshoe in Indiana who had staked out an intersection of IN route 55. This was late at night in pitch black darkness. Indiana highway signs look like speed limit signs from a distance and IN55 in particular is hard to distinguish from the 55MPH speed limit signs. The local cops know this and abuse their power to make illegal stops.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2361263,-87.2433936,3a,75y,1...

Indiana requires signals 200 ft from an intersection in rural areas rather than the normal 100 ft. The county couldn't be bothered to have an advance sign for the intersection so I didn't know when to signal for the turn. He and I were the only two people on the road but clearly I was a major threat to public safety.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by lawnchair_larry on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @06:56PM (#25935914)
What does any of that have to do with the true fact that cops exist to enforce the law? I don’t think anyone made the claim that no cops are abusive.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by inefficient on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:26PM (#25887095)
Well that's just blatantly not true. They aren't even required to know the laws and can enforce laws that they think exist even if they do not. See Heien vs North Carolina.

Police exist to "keep the peace." The question is whose peace are they keeping. Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little. Or the union busting police did in the past. Or blocking the polls for minorities.

But it absolutely isn't "that simple."

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by kortilla on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:43PM (#25888123)
> Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little.

They shot a woman in the neck. What’s the difference you’re trying to portray?

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by dualthro on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:31PM (#25887133)
Police murdered this kid for being weird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by powersnail on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:35PM (#25886772)
Not just policing. I've found that in USA, the society in general wants to meddle with people's business.

Me and my buddy were standing on the sidewalk of a bridge, making a time lapse. Within one hour, someone called the police on us twice.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by throwaway0a5e on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:29PM (#25887993)
>I've found that in USA, the society in general wants to meddle with people's business.

Get away from the wealthy areas on the coasts and "noneya business" quickly becomes the societal norm.

Only places rich and population dense do the police have the spare shits to give about what other people are doing.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by lawnchair_larry on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:00PM (#25886933)
How can anyone possibly draw conclusions about the USA based on this? Like, really stop and think about all of the fallacies here.

Do that 10 more times on 10 different bridges, and I’ll be shocked if that happens even one more time.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by powersnail on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:54PM (#25888644)
My bad. I was speaking in too general a tone.

I should have said that my interaction with the US society has been that people tend to meddle with others' business more often than in other countries that I've been to.

But, yeah, I have many more anecdotes.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by geargrinder on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:39AM (#25893345)
There are many other countries where I have experienced more societal meddling with neighbors' business. Ignoring the obvious authoritarian countries, many western european countries have a culture of making sure you are doing the normal or right thing. Germany is the easiest example.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by naewonawonga on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:11AM (#25893121)
>> Do that 10 more times on 10 different bridges, and I’ll be shocked if that happens even one more time.

Likely it would happen another 8-10 times. Happens all the time, the bigger the bridge, the more likely.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by AshWolfy on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:16PM (#25889181)
Broken windows policing believes that abnormal behavior creates disorder, so all minor infractions must be heavily punished and "problematic" neighborhoods have to have heavy police presence
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by lawnchair_larry on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:09PM (#25886986)
Haha, having spent time above and below 49, I would say you couldn’t be more wrong with that perception. In any American city, especially big liberal ones (which is most of them) you can forget about societal norms. There are weird and crazy people everywhere. Nothing is “weird” to anybody who has spent any amount of time in them. Everyone walks right past a circus on their way to work. Cops pay no attention. Ask a New Yorker about their favorite subway stories. It’s hard enough to get a response to actual crime, let alone a cop waste their time on someone acting weird. North of 49, there is way less for them to focus on. Traffic enforcement as a means of revenue generation is huge up there.

It’s important not to confuse media narratives and cherry picked videos with trends. It’s also important not to generalize across such a diverse set of individuals and jurisdictions. You’ve got everything from LAPD to an elected backwoodsy county Sheriff.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by TuringNYC on Saturday January 23, 2021 @07:44PM (#25887638)
Have you considered that your viewpoint might be so wildly opposing to other opinions because you’re part of an “accepted group” that gets their way...while others like me [an individual of color] get the brunt of enforcement — with or without cause?

Heck, I’ve been stopped in NYC for “walking with a limp” (bike accident, fractured knee)...while wearing a $500 shirt and designer suit.

What you refer to as “cherry picked videos” are just the instances that happen to have been filmed. Seriously, after Central Park Karen and Minnesota, can we at least acknowledge there might be an issue?!

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by lawnchair_larry on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:25PM (#25923534)
Do you not understand the problem with extrapolating trends from cherry picked anecdotes? And no, those videos are absolutely not evidence of problems. They aren’t even evidence of isolated cases of racism. But it wouldn’t change the situation if they were.

More importantly, parent wasn’t even commenting about race.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by cannabis_sam on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:48PM (#25889010)
>In any American city, especially big liberal ones (which is most of them) you can forget about societal norms. There are weird and crazy people everywhere. Nothing is “weird” to anybody who has spent any amount of time in them. Everyone walks right past a circus on their way to work.

> It’s also important not to generalize across such a diverse set of individuals and jurisdictions.

Pick one.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by simlevesque on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:40PM (#25888543)
> You’ve got everything from LAPD to an elected backwoodsy county Sheriff

Did you try to make a joke ? Both of those are racist to the core. They are the same.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by 14 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @05:03PM (#25886569)
We have had the RCMP racially profiling native Americans and picking on people of color. The exact reason they are not supposed to pull you over for offenses as you mentioned but need a reason such as speeding or failure to follow traffic laws. It's NOT OKAY and should not be considered normal for them to do.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by the8472 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:35PM (#25886347)
Human brains tend to be stateful, they can be talked to. And they're only deployed at small scale. AIs don't update and can be deployed at scale.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by kordlessagain on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:13PM (#25889160)
> AIs don't update

Currently.

Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by amelius on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:38PM (#25886377)
How do you train for anomalies, given that the data is widely different every time? Or in other words, how do you obtain a dataset that is representative?
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by simple_phrases on Sunday January 24, 2021 @03:09PM (#25895395)
I'd argue that it is often difficult to impossible, but that doesn't stop companies from making AI/ML products for law enforcement. I'm someone who regularly trips up my bank's weird behavior detection system, and have my debit card frozen more often than it should be because of my purchasing patterns and travel.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by bryanrasmussen on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:09PM (#25886110)
it's inherently scary if one is somewhat anomalous in behavior.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by Wistar on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:39PM (#25886401)
Indeed. Witness all the folks who insisted Amanda Knox was guilty because she didn't act and look as they thought she should were she innocent.
Re:FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol by gvd on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:57PM (#25886518)
This is such a general bs statement