News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:Larry King has died by aero-glide2 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:29AM (#25882050)
News channels were always like this. We just have the internet to cross check now.
Re:Larry King has died by phkahler on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:36AM (#25882088)
>> News channels were always like this. We just have the internet to cross check now.

CNN was not in the beginning. They were a scrappy news channel that came to prominence with real reporting (most notably in the Iraq war). They got corrupted once it was clear they could not be ignored.

News sources have probably always had bias, but it was never such blatant characature back in the day.

Re:Larry King has died by wisam on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:38AM (#25882102)
I'm not even American, but CNN coverage of the 1990-91 Gulf War really put them on the radar. The whole Middle East watched CNN Live coverage.
Re:Larry King has died by epc on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:30AM (#25882878)
Just in the past week someone posted what appears to be control room video from CNN in 1991 (and others): https://youtu.be/5CxWCWhs-uc - start of the US air war, https://youtu.be/RpClxMvpEmM - second hour.
Re:Larry King has died by mbg721 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#25882143)
Anecdotally, (and I am American) it was also somewhere between the Gulf War and the OJ Simpson trial that cable changed from some exotic thing that rich people paid for to something a lot of your friends had.
Re:Larry King has died by bena on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:58AM (#25882244)
Dude had a cameo in the first Ghostbusters. Larry King was already a known entity. There's a reason CNN picked him up.

Never mind, I got mixed up, you're talking about just CNN.

Re:Larry King has died by selimthegrim on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:32AM (#25882896)
He also went with Snoop to Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles and did not appear to enjoy the food.
Re:Larry King has died by spaetzleesser on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:54AM (#25882215)
I remember there was this CNN guy in Bagdad that reported the air attacks live from there. That definitely put them on the map.
Re:Larry King has died by DonHopkins on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#25882690)
Re:Larry King has died by evgen on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:11AM (#25882328)
Bernard Shaw and a couple of other reporters from what I remember. I distinctly recall tuning in a few minutes after things started and listening to them hide in the hotel room as Iraqi security started to clear the hotel that all of the reporters were staying in at the time.
Re:Larry King has died by spaetzleesser on Saturday January 23, 2021 @12:56PM (#25884529)
Just remembered: Peter Arnett. He was the only one who had a phone line out from Iraq during the first attacks.
Re:Larry King has died by dhimes on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:19AM (#25882379)
Wolf Blitzer, IIRC, did that.
Re:Larry King has died by lukateake on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:10AM (#25883262)
Wolf Blitzer was the CNN reporter at the Pentagon that day. He appears in the first video linked above.
Re:Larry King has died by ecopoesis on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:49AM (#25882180)
CNN launched in 1980. The Gulf war was in 1990. Larry King Live premiered on CNN in 1985.

CNN has long been a mix of news and opinion, like all news media ever. That’s why media exists: to push facts and interpretations of those facts.

Media is not a charity: William Randolph Hearst and Ted Turner want something for their money: they want to control the narrative.

It has always been blatant: you just haven’t been paying attention. Hearst started a war! He was such a reviled figure that one of the greatest movies ever made was made to dunk on him.

Re:Larry King has died by rayiner on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:04AM (#25882280)
I distinctly remember when CNN jumped the shark. It was during the 2000 election coverage when they started introducing all these computer generated graphics.
Re:Larry King has died by asveikau on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:08AM (#25883239)
I remember their coverage of Monica Lewinsky and related issues being pretty annoying, along with the rest of the networks.

I remember when Clinton tried to attack claimed al Qaeda infrastructure after the embassy bombings and made a speech about bin Laden (the first time I heard the name) they asked if it was to distract from Monica. Compared it to the film Wag the Dog.

Re:Larry King has died by codysan on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:02AM (#25882264)
News channels do not broadcast 24 hours of news. The majority of programming are personalities, opinions and "recaps." The actual news comes on in hour-long chunks once early in the morning, mid-day and at primetime.
Re:Larry King has died by Cthulhu_ on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:05AM (#25882289)
I'm not going to say my news is perfect, but it's from a non-commercial / nonpartisan organization, they get money from the government / taxes (which is less than ideal, but their independence is codified I believe), etc. It sticks to the news, professional-like.

Switch to the commercial channels (we thankfully don't have major 24 hour news channels) and the news on there has much more er, Personalities, quirkiness, some silly background news, and a weatherman that travels the country to visit events and petting zoos and shit.

Re:Larry King has died by specialist on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:48AM (#25883035)
As you well know:

The trick is paying attention long enough to determine if sources stay consistent, issue proper corrections & retractions, are intellectually honest, etc.

Or if the purveyors are just hacking ratings, for more ad revenue.

In the 80s, I eschewed a career in broadcast media. I loved the gear, doing creative stuff, working in the studio. But absolutely hated the business. "If it bleeds, it leads."

We've been complaining about outrage engines since the beginning. Social media just made things much much worse.

Re:Larry King has died by codysan on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:38AM (#25882500)
State-funded media has it's own problems but at least there's some accountability which is effectively nonexistent for large media companies. As long as the free market rewards sensationalism, there will be profit driven "journalism." Ultimately, the general populace needs to be educated on the veracity of news in the digital age; how to spot a misleading headline, and how to corroborate actual expository works.
Re:Larry King has died by matwood on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:32AM (#25882466)
> The actual news comes on in hour-long chunks once early in the morning, mid-day and at primetime.

Yep, even Fox has some 'real' news a few times a day. Or at least they did until Sheppard Smith quit.

Re:Larry King has died by brobdingnagians on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:50AM (#25882186)
I think some news was always like this; but I think investigative journalism like Glenn Greenwald used to be given more time in the primetime news. Really shocking things were uncovered and actually spread (like Norman Gorin's 60 Minutes Report on 1976 swine flu). There is news that is fantastic now, but it is getting pushed further and further out.
Re:Larry King has died by mbg721 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:31AM (#25882057)
Was that about the same time period MTV had music videos?
Re:Larry King has died by epc on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:31AM (#25882056)
Facts don’t attract viewers, facts don’t pay.
Re:Larry King has died by mxcrossb on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:07AM (#25882305)
Hence why over half of the comments in this thread about the passing of Larry King are about the political bent of CNN
Re:Larry King has died by smoyer on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:22AM (#25882011)
Oh how I long for the days when any of the "news channels" actually had news. Is there anybody who simply states facts anymore?
Re:Larry King has died by mgkimsal on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:33AM (#25882067)
"facts", when presented individually, can create almost any impression the fact presenter wants to create. and that's what we've been seeing so much of - people looking at "facts" outside of larger contexts, and (intentionally or not) drawing wrong conclusions.
Re:Larry King has died by brobdingnagians on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:46AM (#25882164)
You are correct there. It is easy to take two facts and extrapolate almost anything you want. I think the issue is that in a lot of modern news the facts are lost in the opinions and rhetoric and extrapolation to the party line. It is better to have lists of facts than lists of opinions; and even better to have a coherent collection of facts that all corroborate one another. It is good to have a variety of primary sources and hard data over a long time period. Too often the news just quotes a death figure without giving you context of how many people usually die in a year, or other information; presumably that data exists. It would be much better to have death rates for each year over the last hundred years, then be able to compare.
Re:Larry King has died by mgkimsal on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:25AM (#25882421)
I had months of people telling me the 'fact' that "Fauci said not to wear a mask! That's a fact! Go read it here!"

When presented with "well, he also later said 'wear a mask' - which is also a fact"... I would get "fake news" or "he flip flops and therefore can't be trusted". When pointed out they were still 'trusting' the "don't wear a mask" fact... things usually ended there, with some profanity thrown my way.

When more information was presented, it was almost always countered with "that's just your opinion". Or... "I don't trust CNN", etc. At some point a switch flips with many people and "facts" only count when they match your internal belief system.

Re:Larry King has died by jghn on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:38AM (#25882103)
Al Jazeera English (can’t speak to the other streams) has 30-60 minute blocks of actual news throughout the day. Another benefit is that they have a more global perspective so those news blocks are a lot more likely to be covering the unrest in Darfur than a human interest story about a woman in Idaho who just ate her 10000th Big Mac
Re:Larry King has died by p1esk on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:56AM (#25882236)
Not gonna lie, I’m more likely to click on Big Mac woman video than on unrest in Darfur.
Re:Larry King has died by pmorici on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:37AM (#25882094)
PBS News Hour? There isn’t enough of National or Global importance to fill a 24/7 broadcast so any channel that needs to fill that amount of time is doomed to have poor quality.
Re:Larry King has died by jghn on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:40AM (#25882118)
They’ll repeat, but it’s not clear why that is poor quality. It’s not a bad thing that there’s not true, honest to goodness, novel news at all hours of the day.
Re:Larry King has died by brobdingnagians on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:39AM (#25882110)
I wish more people would post primary sources & hard data. A lot of people will disagree with the content, but "The Last American Vagabond"[1] does a good job of presenting primary sources (usually medical journals/studies, gov't press releases, interviews, CDC, WHO etc.); includes links to all of them in all show notes so you can look through all of it. The main point here is that including primary sources is important, and I don't see most people doing that. I wish more news sources would include the primary sources and more hard data to support their position.

[1] http://thelastamericanvagabond.com/

Re:Larry King has died by codysan on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:12AM (#25882332)
It's just as misleading to string together dozens of "sources" in an article to prop up a narrative. It appears to me that the website you've linked is just playing on peoples paranoia, a la YouTube "news" channels. If the actual content has to chase the dramatic headline the entire time, you can be sure that it's a whole lot of BS.
Re:Larry King has died by Cthulhu_ on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:09AM (#25882314)
Plenty, but you have to find them first.

But even if news LOOKS like they stick to the facts, you should still look at them critically and get your news from multiple sources; they can still influence your opinion simply by omission or by emphasis (random example: put a muslim terrorist attack front and center, put a nazi terrorist attack in a byline or not publish it at all).

The news items themselves can be presented neutrally, but what news to present and how still matters.

Re:Larry King has died by wiredfool on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:12AM (#25882334)
How do you put a terrorist attack in a byline?
Re:Larry King has died by oceanplexian on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:47AM (#25883024)
Simple, do what they are doing with the Nashville bombing and the Las Vegas shooting before that. Don’t bother investigating any relatives, family members, or neighbors. Do a few fluff interviews with the FBI or the police and put it somewhere at the bottom of the page.
Re:Larry King has died by pmoriarty on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:14AM (#25883315)
"Is there anybody who simply states facts anymore?"

Which facts?

Picking and choosing which facts to report is in itself a way of controlling the narrative.

Re:Larry King has died by treeman79 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:55AM (#25882222)
Jamie Dupree is what I consider a gold standard reporter of trying to get personal bias out of reporting.
Re:Larry King has died by geff82 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:56AM (#25882231)
Euronews simply has facts.
Re:Larry King has died by iso1210 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:35AM (#25882083)
Which facts?

A list of facts is often biassed.

Re:Larry King has died by guerrilla on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:46AM (#25882166)
That's a second problem. You still need to solve the first one to even have that one.
Re:Larry King has died by brobdingnagians on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:41AM (#25882130)
I think the main issue is when there are _no_ facts, no primary sources, no hard data.
Re:Larry King has died by koolba on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:30AM (#25882052)
For the curious, that was in 2010.
Re:Larry King has died by wesleywt on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:43AM (#25882136)
Its still news. You just want to an opinion, which is not news.
Re:Larry King has died by _Microft on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:39AM (#25882108)
Stop spreading FUD, CNN actually does have news. Certain parts of the populace might not like their reporting but that’s it.
Re:Larry King has died by forinti on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:52AM (#25882201)
I used to watch CNN, but it just doesn't seem serious anymore. It's all about getting people into heated debates (inspired by Fox maybe?) or presenters having emotions or interviewers trying to corner people with their righteousness. Amanpour has very different approaches depending on who she interviews; her preferences are just too obvious.

The news channel I like best nowadays is Aljazeera. I like some shows on RT, but it is not really a news channel either.

Re:Larry King has died by briefcomment on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#25882149)
I’m sure there’s news, but it’s always buried under a mound of opinion. And there’s news worthy facts that get conveniently left out.
Re:Larry King has died by PaulHoule on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:52AM (#25882194)
Mostly CNN is sensationalistic and wants to develop an attachment to it's brand. CNN has to fill 24 hrs of TV and has less budget to do it then a network has for the half hour evening broadcast.

That means as little flying to flyover states as possible, never leave WDC or Atlanta, certainly dont send Anderson Cooper to Egypt where he could get beat up by government thugs.

Thus its a lot easier to make the news about yourself; reminds me of the ESPN morning SportsCenter from years ago -- when they ran out of sports lowlights the anchors would get caught abusing people on tape.

Re:Larry King has died by maxerickson on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:19AM (#25882381)
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/anderson-cooper-attac...

Are you saying they changed in the last 10 years? CNN has revenues in excess of $1 billion, so they are likely spending millions of dollars a day.

Re:Larry King has died by PaulHoule on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:27AM (#25882432)
Yes, they've gotten worse.

AC used to go to interesting places and do interesting things. After he got beat up they'd have him sit behind a desk and report on WDC politicians acting like children except he had to take them seriously instead of calling out their behavior.

Before Trump came on the scene you would hear them talk about themselves on a slow news Sunday, and the big problem they face was low ratings. You might think they just chased away people with saturation cover of school shootings and plane crashes, but they tried many different things and convinced themselves they were doing the optimal thing.

Probably the owners thought about shutting it down, but the presence of Fox News made that seem really irresponsible.

Trump came and it was great for ratings, like 9/11 every day. That's over now.

Re:Larry King has died by dakics on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:44AM (#25882542)
There are Arwa Damon and Clarissa Ward. Then another female anchor, who people-smuggled herself through Africa with a hidden camera. They are all serious badasses, I don't even watch movies that tense.

There will always be another storm season for Chris Cuomo and AC. :-)

Re:Larry King has died by MobileVet on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:51AM (#25882187)
Every organization has bias, period. Some have more, some have less. The sooner one recognizes and accepts it, the sooner one is able to have constructive conversations and consume media with the appropriate level of skepticism.

News is a business like any other. They require money, which is equal to clicks in the online world. Hate the game, not the player (unless they are purposefully distorting reality).

Re:Larry King has died by tspowell on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#25882145)
CNN uses clickbait titles and misleading interpretations to pander to their viewers for page views. They are far from respectable.
Re:Larry King has died by greatwhitenorth on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:11AM (#25882327)
CNN is a warner media company and they're a for profit business. They will say anything to make money. If you're an expert in a topic, read how it's reported in CNN/media. You will see how much they lie and exaggerate.
Re:Larry King has died by sparkling on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:56AM (#25882233)
If we are talking about the TV station, 20% of any given news clip are actual information, the remaining 80% are spins and opinion from the editor or host.

Also, we are really stretching the meaning of the word "news" nowadays. Remember this piece? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEahmx0Btw

While i have great respect for Larry King, i have lost nearly all respect for CNN. By the way, the same applies to Fox.

Re:Larry King has died by TheAdamAndChe on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:44AM (#25882153)
Watch recordings of the news coverage of 9/11. The news casters were sober and stunned of course, but they were emotionally calm and allowed for moments of silence. They tried to only reference what they considered facts, or were extremely explicit in stating that something was a rumor.

Look at them now. The emotionality of everything is amped up to 11. They reference Twitter constantly. Everything is an existential crisis, and when Trump was in office, everything was his fault. During the 2015 democratic primaries and 2016 election, CNN got the nickname "Clinton News Network" because of how one-sided the coverage was.

There's a reason that trust in news is decaying. Though this is kind of a tangent from the main topic.

Re:Larry King has died by treeman79 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:53AM (#25882206)
They always leaned left. But there was an expectation of being neutral, or at least appearing so. Basically being professional.

That restraint has been lost. Watching young reporters is painful in his much they are tying to get jabs in. Like a dog being rewarded for killing neighbors chickens.

Re:Larry King has died by isbadawi on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:59AM (#25882670)
Just to clarify, Donald Trump called them "Clinton News Network". I think it's a little misleading to say they just "got the nickname".
Re:Larry King has died by selimthegrim on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:33AM (#25882910)
He took that from Rush Limbaugh
Re:Larry King has died by Dma54rhs on Saturday January 23, 2021 @10:02AM (#25882691)
It's equivalent of Fox news, they really went insane from all the attention trump gave them. It sure feels like a pure propaganda channel now.
Re:Larry King has died by spaetzleesser on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:52AM (#25882196)
I am pretty left wing but what I have seen from CNN lately was basically a left wing version of FoxNews. Lots of opinion mixed with a little amount of news and clearly geared against Trump. Definitely not the CNN from around 2000.
Re:Larry King has died by ianai on Saturday January 23, 2021 @09:49AM (#25882577)
The danger in having so many extremist elements on the right side is, in part, breeding extremism on the left. The situation would be helped if the right side extremism became less extreme - either through lack of interest or conscious choice on their part.
Re:Larry King has died by pmoriarty on Saturday January 23, 2021 @11:18AM (#25883359)
"CNN lately was basically a left wing version of FoxNews. Lots of opinion mixed with a little amount of news and clearly geared against Trump."

You don't have to be on the left to be critical of Trump. Plenty of right wingers (including Bush Jr) are critical of him. He's made a lot of enemies all over the political spectrum.

To me CNN is basically a right-wing channel, just not as right-wing as FOX.

For real left-wing media, watch Democracy Now! or read The Nation.

Re:Larry King has died by ecopoesis on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:37AM (#25882092)
Don’t parrot popular false narratives. CNN still has news today, though generally only on breaking news type situations. It turns out the Internet is better for headlines then a thirty-minute talking head loop.

And when on CNN Larry King wasn’t part of their news operation. He was a talk show radio host. Larry King Live was Oprah for old men. Larry King is big part of why CNN moved away from 100% news.

Re:Larry King has died by beervirus on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:38AM (#25882104)
CNN does still have news. But a lot of what it has is more like unlabeled editorials, treated like news.
Re:Larry King has died by mbg721 on Saturday January 23, 2021 @08:40AM (#25882115)
Even Fox News has news, for 30 seconds at the top of the hour or whatever it is.