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Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by landryraccoon on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:19PM (#25707298)
Free speech has limits, does it not? The US Supreme Court has ruled that one cannot, for example, falsely scream fire in a crowded theater.

I would assume that calls for the violent overthrow of the US government in order to overturn an election at the very least should be considered as equally dangerous as screaming fire in a crowded theater.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by tick_tock_tick on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:25PM (#25707382)
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by landryraccoon on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:36PM (#25707521)
Here's a quote from the article you cited:

> n 1969, the Supreme Court's decision in Brandenburg v. Ohio effectively overturned Schenck and any authority the case still carried. There, the Court held that inflammatory speech--and even speech advocating violence by members of the Ku Klux Klan--is protected under the First Amendment, unless the speech "is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".

I would argue that the elements of Trump's speech on Jan 6th satisfy all the elements in the lawless action test:

- Trump gave a speech on January 6th, the same date as the insurrection.

- In this speech he directed his supporters to march on the capitol with his support.

- His supporters did actually march on the Capitol, then proceeded to violently occupy it.

Regardless of Trump's inner mind, it is clear that his followers believed that his intent was for them to march on the Capitol while the election was being certified and forcefully disrupt those proceedings.

It seems to me this is a very strong case that Trump's speech did in fact incite the violence that occurred that day, and the very short amount of time separating those events make it easy to argue that one was the immediate cause of the other.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by verroq on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:39PM (#25707567)
We are not talking about trump. We are talking about Apple, who is forcing other companies to censor their user’s speech and acting as judge and jury on what is acceptable.
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by landryraccoon on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:44PM (#25707643)
Ah, let's talk about Parler specifically then.

https://fortune.com/2021/01/08/parler-violence-trump-2020-el...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/05/parler-...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/01/06/trump-riot-tw...

Based on these articles, it sure sounds to me like Parler users are openly calling for immediate violence.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by verroq on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:47PM (#25707688)
And this is for the FBI, why is Apple acting as the government’s proxy?
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by throwawaysea on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:48PM (#25707696)
You are allowed to call for the overthrow of the US government. Sedition is protected speech unless it is calling for "imminent" lawless action, as a result of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio. As a result, you are allowed to yell fire in a theater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the...).
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by mopsi on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:36PM (#25707524)
> The US Supreme Court has ruled that one cannot, for example, falsely scream fire in a crowded theater.

Very few people seem to know the context of that ruling. That line of thought was used to justify criminal punishment of two socialists from Philadelphia for hindering the war effort in 1917. Their crime: they distributed anti-war leaflets. Elizabeth Baer spent 3 months in prison, Charles T. Schenck 10 years.

Goes to show the extent "yelling fire in a theater" can be stretched, and has been stretched from the very first case.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by verroq on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:31PM (#25707470)
This is just the same lame four excuses [0] to justify censorship and mass surveillance. Just replace terrorism with “inciting violence”.

Now the government doesn’t even need to get their hands dirty to censor the internet, private companies enforce it themselves with with impunity.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocal...

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by jpxw on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:21PM (#25707317)
If you think Trump incited violence, that is a crime which should be decided in a courtroom, and not in Mark Zuckerberg’s office.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think what Trump said was incitement, or even close to it. Irresponsible? Yes. Incitement? No.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by zadokshi on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:26PM (#25707397)
This is why social media platforms are anti competitive and in risk of anti trust lawsuits. You don’t get to twist trumps words and then ban the @POTUS account just because he threatens to create a competing platform.

No reasonable person could take that as incitement. So the only logical answer is anti competitive behaviour, or political manipulation/interference.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by andrei_says_ on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:48PM (#25707694)
What trump did was incitement using carefully constructed language giving clear instructions while maintaining denialability.

There’s no way you believe he was doing anything else. You’re basically pushing for the denialability part by pretending to be innocently surprised.

No.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by cmurf on Saturday January 09, 2021 @09:27PM (#25708154)
Trump wound them up with lies and conspiracies and urgency two hours before they went to the capital on his recommendation. This is certainly provoking unlawful behavior or urging someone to behave unlawfully which is the definition of incitement.

The defendants will unquestionably be using the "Trump told us to" defense.

Trump violated the terms more often and worse than regular people who were removed from the platform. Thousands of regular people kicked off for violating the terms and it's Donald Fucking Trump and Parler that gets folks in an uproar? Over things that happen all the time? By long standing service agreements? What?

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by landryraccoon on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:25PM (#25707375)
I agree that this should be decided in a courtroom. If Trump wishes to sue Twitter or the US Government, he is more than free to do so.

However, I think both his case and yours is undermined by the very, very strong circumstantial evidence that after his lawyer, Giuliani, called for "trial by combat" and he said that he would personally lead the crowd in a march on the Capitol on Jan 6th the violent insurrection actually took place is a very strong argument that he incited the uprising.

Furthermore, the fact that even as these Trump supporters were occupying the Capitol he said that he "loves them", that also undermines any argument that he did not incite sedition.

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by zadokshi on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:22PM (#25707342)
Strawman. Who is calling for violent overthrow of the US government? Even one person? And on Parler or on Twitter?
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by ceejayoz on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:43PM (#25707632)
> Who is calling for violent overthrow of the US government?

Does the crowd storming the Capitol chanting "hang Mike Pence" count? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW718KRYDtU

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by Bud on Saturday January 09, 2021 @09:25PM (#25708133)
The President gave a speech on Wednesday, to a mob, in which he called for the violent overthrow of the US government.

It has been three days.

Have you already forgotten?

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by landryraccoon on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:26PM (#25707390)
Trump has been calling openly to overturn the election every day from Nov 3rd until Jan 6th, including when he was caught on tape attempting to convince the Secretary of State of Georgia to illegally overturn the election there.
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by klmadfejno on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:35PM (#25707512)
Lots of people. Here's one subset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement

Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by that_guy_iain on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:24PM (#25707367)
Here is a great thread on Twitter that explains how Trump did. https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status/1347908845281095680?...
Re:Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler by dredmorbius on Saturday January 09, 2021 @08:38PM (#25707551)