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Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by danaliv on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:34PM (#25692200)
They didn’t just look at the tweets; they looked at how they’re actually being received. I think that’s a crucial distinction.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by copperwater69 on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:35PM (#25692247)
I'm receiving your benign post in a harmful manner. What should we do in this situation?
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by scoopertrooper on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:36PM (#25692275)
How many police officers have you killed since receiving this post?
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by copperwater69 on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:39PM (#25692360)
The same amount killed from those two trump tweets
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by scoopertrooper on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:42PM (#25692441)
No mention of the hundreds of preceded them?

Actions have consequences.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by totony on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:52PM (#25692649)
As a data point, I haven't killed anyone because of trump tweets
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by scoopertrooper on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:01PM (#25692820)
The people that receive Trump tweets and go on to attempt a violent insurrection against the government are admittedly in the long tail; I don't think that fact negates the fact it happened.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by benmmurphy on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:55PM (#25693804)
This is an outrageous standard to hold over a person. So if any whackjob reads a politician's statement and subsequently commits a crime the politician should be held responsible by the media and removed from office. I've reviewed a transcript of Trump's 6th January speech and there is no incitement to commit crimes in it. I am not intimately familiar with Trump's tweeting history but my guess is there is no incitement to commit crimes in that body of text either.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by scoopertrooper on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:57PM (#25693868)
I posted some of his recent Twitter activity in response to another comment.

I'll allow you to make up your own mind as to whether a reasonable person could determine there was a proximate cause between his tweeting and the violent acts on 6 January.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25693620

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by totony on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:05PM (#25692890)
But isn't there always a long tail that will cause chaos or take things in a bad way? Especially with the sheer size of Trump's audience.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by scoopertrooper on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:45PM (#25693620)
It's not as though Donald Trump was tweeting about his favourite national holidays since the election and some lone wolf got the wrong idea.

Donald Trump has consistently used his Twitter account to demonise the people that were in the building that was attacked. He suggested that the Democratic Party, in coalition with a supposed 'deep state', systematically rigged an election. He posted and retweeted outrageous conspiracies about how these forces worked to steal the election and abrogate the American constitution.

More than that, he used his Twitter account to promote the very rally that preceded the act of insurrection.

> I hope the Democrats, and even more importantly, the weak and ineffective RINO section of the Republican Party, are looking at the thousands of people pouring into D.C. They won’t stand for a landslide election victory to be stolen. @senatemajldr @JohnCornyn @SenJohnThune

> Washington is being inundated with people who don’t want to see an election victory stolen by emboldened Radical Left Democrats. Our Country has had enough, they won’t take it anymore! We hear you (and love you) from the Oval Office. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

> The “Surrender Caucus” within the Republican Party will go down in infamy as weak and ineffective “guardians” of our Nation, who were willing to accept the certification of fraudulent presidential numbers!

> How can you certify an election when the numbers being certified are verifiably WRONG. You will see the real numbers tonight during my speech, but especially on JANUARY 6th. @SenTomCotton Republicans have pluses & minuses, but one thing is sure, THEY NEVER FORGET!

> Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!

> “Georgia election data, just revealed, shows that over 17,000 votes illegally flipped from Trump to Biden.” @OANN This alone (there are many other irregularities) is enough to easily “swing Georgia to Trump”. #StopTheSteal @HawleyMO @SenTedCruz @Jim_Jordan

> The number of cases and deaths of the China Virus is far exaggerated in the United States because of @CDCgov’s ridiculous method of determination compared to other countries, many of whom report, purposely, very inaccurately and low. “When in doubt, call it Covid.” Fake News!

> An attempt to steal a landslide win. Can’t let it happen! https://t.co/sKn4iTjUy0

> ....that, quite frankly, didn’t have much of a chance, like 7, 8 or 9. The Presidential Election was Rigged with hundreds of thousands of ballots mysteriously flowing into Swing States very late at night as everyone thought the election was easily won by me. There were many....

> I will be speaking at the SAVE AMERICA RALLY tomorrow on the Ellipse at 11AM Eastern. Arrive early — doors open at 7AM Eastern. BIG CROWDS! https://t.co/k4blXESc0c

> RT @AmyKremer: We are excited to announce the site of our January 6th event will be The Ellipse in the President’s Park, just steps from th…

https://www.thetrumparchive.com/

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by 1propionyl on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:47PM (#25692557)
Ah, but here's the rub: danaliv isn't (I don't think...) the President of the United States, much less one who has repeatedly offered support and comfort to people who have committed acts of violence and insurrection.

Context matters.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by danaliv on Saturday January 09, 2021 @02:16AM (#25698268)
> danaliv isn't (I don't think...) the President of the United States

Now there’s a terrifying thought.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by dageshi on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:38PM (#25692336)
Construct your own bubble of reality to legitimise any and all actions you might choose to take?
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by thereare5lights on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:47PM (#25692553)
Prove their point by getting millions of others to also receive it in a harmful manner and then also have them take violent action.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by santoshalper on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:16PM (#25693095)
The tweets were not benign, and the repercussions were obvious and many people predicted this outcome. You are being hopelessly obtuse because you are blinded by fanaticism.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by danaliv on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:41PM (#25692415)
I suspect no matter what we do you’re going to continue arguing in bad faith while pretending nothing happened Wednesday and Trump isn’t sui generis.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by bcrosby95 on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:10PM (#25692994)
The problem is whether through incompetence or on purpose, Donald Trump has a history of being unable to - unequivocally - denounce the people that do this shit in his name. He always throws in random bullshit that they can interpret as support for their actions and goals.

Personally I just think he has a hard time saying bad things about people that support him. But it's a pretty big fucking problem when they're doing things like this.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by nkrisc on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:39PM (#25692354)
If it's only you, then nothing.
[dead]
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by danaliv on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:38PM (#25692310)
No, they care what Trump’s followers think he said, because they’ve already committed one heinous act of violence.

Read this carefully. They are looking at the actual response to these tweets. Not their own personal feelings. The actual effects on other Twitter users.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by standardout on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:49PM (#25692592)
Trump could've tweeted "Hamburger" and his followers would've reacted the same way.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by ErikVandeWater on Friday January 08, 2021 @10:05PM (#25695951)
If you banned a public official's account every time a substantial number of their followers misinterpreted it and committed violence, you'd have none left.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by alsetmusic on Friday January 08, 2021 @10:49PM (#25696581)
In your experience, does that happen a lot? Please cite examples.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by syshum on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:45PM (#25692499)
That is a very dangerous prescient. Lets see if this new way of looking at tweets is applied evenly across the political spectrum because it is a fundamental shift for Twitter
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by SpicyLemonZest on Friday January 08, 2021 @06:51PM (#25692635)
Do you have a less dangerous alternative?
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by syshum on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:03PM (#25692854)
For me I am cultural Free Speech Absolutist, I see censorship as a far greater threat and history generally agree with my position.

Now the most common retort is "but its a private platform" which is true, but it also enjoys regulated protections from liability those protections should come with strings attach to them to uphold and honor the free speech rights of the public.

As to the danger, anyone that believes Trump is the source, cause, or even primary instigator of what is happening is not paying attention to reality or the last 20+ years or so of social unrest.

I can assure you if/when Trump is banned from all platforms and is relegated to the dust bins of society to fundamental cultural problems that are the root of the unrest will still be there

Trump is a symptom, Avatar, a Symbol of the problem for sure, Trump can be a lightening rod I will not deny that either. However removing one lightening rod will not make the lightening disappear it will just find another path.

I do not have a solution to those cultural problems either, and that is even more worrisome than Twitter censoring people, which honestly I wish they would have done in 2016 as twitter would be a less relevant platform today which is why they did not in 2016 they need Trump just as much as Trump needed them

i do know that censorship (private or public) is not the path to unity, it as never worked in history so there is no reason to believe it will work in the current year..

EDIT: ------------------ Since I have now been throttled for having incorrect opions allow me to respond to the below comment here

>> @krapp says "That's why the First Amendment only applies to Congress"

That is a very simplistic take, and I never once said anything about the 1st Amendment.

Free Speech is a natural right of human's which is protected from government infringement by the 1st amendment, but the 1st amendment does not grant or bestow this right upon us, we have simply by being alive

This is also called the Lockean understanding of Rights.

You have also conflated Free Speech and the Right os Association, another natural right everyone has. The right of association is what gives twitter the ethical foundation to ban or refuse to publish the words of anyone they choose

Which I 100% support, however the fly in the ointment is the fact that congress has given special legal liability protections to Twitter where by they will not be held liable if they choose to associate with the public at large as a platform. IMO granting these liabilities shields to twitter, twitter should also have to accept they will welcome all legal protected speech. They would also be free to choose to reject that liability shield and retain their right of association.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by krapp on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:10PM (#25692985)
>but it also enjoys regulated protections from liability those protections should come with strings attach to them to uphold and honor the free speech rights of the public.

The free speech rights of the public include the right not to be compelled to hear, host or publish speech against one's will. That's why the First Amendment only applies to Congress - if it also applied to the public, it would limit their freedom of speech.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by syshum on Saturday January 09, 2021 @03:59AM (#25698770)
That is a very simplistic take, and I never once said anything about the 1st Amendment.

Free Speech is a natural right of human's which is protected from government infringement by the 1st amendment, but the 1st amendment does not grant or bestow this right upon us, we have simply by being alive

This is also called the Lockean understanding of Rights.

You have also conflated Free Speech and the Right os Association, another natural right everyone has. The right of association is what gives twitter the ethical foundation to ban or refuse to publish the words of anyone they choose

Which I 100% support, however the fly in the ointment is the fact that congress has given special legal liability protections to Twitter where by they will not be held liable if they choose to associate with the public at large as a platform. IMO granting these liabilities shields to twitter, twitter should also have to accept they will welcome all legal protected speech. They would also be free to choose to reject that liability shield and retain their right of association.

Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by SpicyLemonZest on Friday January 08, 2021 @07:24PM (#25693246)
I agree with everything you're saying here, but it's just not related to the current situation. Twitter didn't ban Trump because they think it'll have a healing effect and resolve social divisions in American society; they banned him because they think he might incite his supporters to violently attack the inauguration ceremony on January 20th, as he incited them to attack Congress two days ago.
Re:Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump by syshum on Saturday January 09, 2021 @09:37AM (#25700681)
If that is the case why permanent ban? Why not 30 days...

I am also not a big fan of the "incitement" defense, it seems that is often a moving goal post depending the the political views of the person being accuses of incitement, it is also very subjective, I am not a fan of subjectivity in policy. Policy have to be objective.

To objective incitement, i.e a direct call to violence, should be ban-able, but subjective analysis on what "he really meant" or "how people took the words" is where I start to have problems