From what I saw, this attutude was there from the very beginning, from the top down.

(This has been observed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22888726)

Probably true. As an aside, coming from a Linux/Windows background and having partially moved to Mac recently, I observe the same of the Mac community.

For instance, when Big Sur launched, there was a tiny little utility that did nothing but change the color of the menu bar, and they wanted something like five dollars for it. Lots of stuff like this on Mac, I find. Popular FTP clients and text editors and disk utilities and stuff like that, they all cost money. The equivalents on Windows are more often than not free-as-in-beer. Just an observation.

But yeah, surely AmigaOS would benefit from being open source and free software in 2021, like EmuTOS or RISC OS Open. Unfortunately the ownership of the core parts of the OS has fallen into less than optimal hands (Cloanto...) and/or is still encumbered by patents or rights issues. So it goes. There is AROS though of course.

Just curious: what's wrong with Cloanto?

Didn't see your reply until much later, but in case you're still wondering, this blog post about sums it up:

https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress.com/2019/02/15/hyperion...

Thank you, that's interesting! But it's just one side, and I wonder what the other side would write...

> lots of Amiga software and hardware has traditionally been commercial and proprietary in a (maybe misguided) effort to save the platform

Wow. "Misguided" seems like the understatement of the century. How can a niche retro platform be "saved" by keeping everything proprietary (and often expensive)?

Most likely because the people keeping the platform alive have better things to do than offer free beer, and would rather spend their lives doing something else instead.

I'm not sure I follow. Giving something to the community, either for free or gratis, in a hobbyist space such as this one is not more work. It's clear people in the retro computing scene feel passionate about it -- they'd rather spend their time doing this and not something else (and if you see the people writing retro games, they are willing to put a lot of work into it). So how can this closed/proprietary mindset help "save" the platform? It only caters to the very small niche of people who are willing to pay relatively large sums for custom hardware & software with no real use (it's a hobby) and who will take it all to their graves.

Because the people charging for their work, would do something else if that wasn't the case, thus there wouldn't exist anything at all.

They are passionate, just not that passionate.

People doing retro games also happen to actually sell them, with nice packaging.

Yes, some sell them. It's puzzling to me, because this effectively narrows down their audience.

> Because the people charging for their work, would do something else if that wasn't the case, thus there wouldn't exist anything at all.

I don't know that this is the case for Amiga enthusiasts. They chose this not for the money, but because they love retro computing. They wouldn't be doing something else, just like a writer or an artist wouldn't. And by making their output proprietary -- and pricey! -- they are narrowing down their audience, which is the opposite of "saving" the platform.

I've seldom seen people more passionate about their hobby (note: hobby, not business) than retro computing fans.

Except for many people having a hobby is a side job.

Not everyone is blessed with such a wealthy life that can just seat and offer free beer to others.

So they choose a side job where they can still have some fun.

If that wasn't the case they would probably just be dumping remakes into iOS, Switch, PS, XBox indie stores or even doing something completely unrelated to computers.

> Except for many people having a hobby is a side job.

> Not everyone is blessed with such a wealthy life that can just seat and offer free beer to others.

I understand what you're saying in principle, but I don't believe this is the case with retrocomputing or the Amiga scene. This is an expensive hobby anyway, people who are not blessed with a relatively wealthy life do not have time for retro computing. People love retro computing because they feel passionate about it and find it intellectually or aesthetically stimulating. Nobody sets out to make a game for the Amiga, the C64 or the Speccy thinking "I know, this is where the money is!". They do it primarily out of love.

I believe the issue here is a cultural thing, really. Like someone else mentioned, the Amiga community, much like the Apple community, is used to paying for things that would be free or even libre in other tech communities. (edit: this is supported by this thread from 8 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22888726, let me quote: "In my observations (also as a relative outsider), it has been like this at least from the early 1990s. Every little itty-bitty program for the Amiga cost money.")

Back when I was a kid, Amigas were pretty expensive and few people could afford them (none of my friends could). Kids without wealthy parents didn't own Amigas.

Regardless of their motivations, my overall point still stands: pricey gadgets/software for a tiny niche hobbyist platform puts up a wall, raises the barrier to entry, and discourages newcomers -- surely not the best way to "save" it!

I tend to agree with those communities, as former demoscene member, Windows and macOS users. :)

Doing stuff out of love doesn't mean we have to offer it as free beer. UK RetroGaming magazine has plenty of new interesting games being sold for 8 and 16 bit platforms, where the authors even repurpose old cartridges, or go through the effort to produce tapes just like back in the day.

In the 80's all computers were expensive, I find it interesting that you mention Amigas only being available to wealthy families, given that in Portugal getting an Amiga 500 was definitely cheaper than most PCs.

Anyone capable of buying a computer would do so via credit anyway.

Even on MS-DOS/Windows, people are used to pay, only the UNIX communities tend to feel entitled to get stuff for free.