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Re:The Internet Is for Porn by _huayra_ on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:14AM (#25486737)
This feminist take was definitely uncalled for in this article. The author's bias about how the women, _who are actually getting monetarily compensated_, are the victims completely misses the costs to the purchasers, who are almost all men, in terms of their money and the neurologic changes that such sex work consumption has. Having the "algorithm" suggesting and enticing these men back to buy more subscriptions / pics or however it works on these things is just as much a negative side effect as the women experience in social stigma.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by klunger on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:40PM (#25488930)
Wow. Are you really saying that the men who consume porn are equally victimized as actual sex workers, because of an algorithm?

In the sense that algorithms do nudge our behaviour in insidious ways, addicted consumers of porn can be seen as victims of a sort. But, to suggest that the social stigma associated with porn usage is equal, much less anywhere near approaching, or in the same order of magnitude of the social stigma that sex workers face, is just so incredibly wrong.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by witherk on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:03PM (#25489072)
I think you're right if you're only putting 1 sex worker and 1 porn addict on the scale, but I would imagine that for every sex worker there could be 100 porn addicts watching them, the math gets more tricky.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by klunger on Monday December 21, 2020 @05:47AM (#25493734)
This is an interesting point. The problem, I think, is that as individuals, we only have feelings based on our own experiences.

So, perhaps in an aggregate sense, there is more suffering of all the men men who are slightly stigmatized because they watch too much porn. But, none of them feel this as acutely as the single single sex worker who can 1) probably never get a more "legitimate" job again 2) may not be there of her own free will (yes, even if she is getting paid) 3) may not have any support network because her family has cut her off because of what she does (this is common).

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by mbrodersen on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:20AM (#25493894)
If I understand it correctly, porn actors are adults, working under signed, legal contracts that specify, in extreme explicit details, exactly what they will be doing during a shoot. If they were actually forced to do it, then it would be a criminal act of rape, something that would very quickly bring down producers responsible for it. Do you have any evidence that porn actors in general are forced to work?
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by lanternfish on Monday December 21, 2020 @08:01AM (#25494512)
Check out Doe vs. Girlsdoporncom.

The decision finds that the company used manipulation and intimidation to force young women into signing contracts they weren't supposed to understand which were contrary to spoken agreements.

This company was big (maybe still is) and isn't an outlier in the space.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by vladTheInhaler on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @05:46AM (#25504947)
Actually that company is now dead, and one of the owners is an international fugitive.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by mbrodersen on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:55PM (#25513905)
A single example is not evidence for it happening in general. There are plenty examples of factories dangerously mistreating their workers. That doesn’t mean that they all do it or that it is common practice.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by steve_taylor on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:17PM (#25490071)
Username checks out.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Guthur on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:26PM (#25490592)
So there is some sort of scale of victimhood, and everyone should measured against it?

Are men victims of their own biology? How come they're the ones that predominately, are they inherently evil and exploitive, is that what we should believe.

Whoa inventing moral codes is hard, i wonder how long it will take us to figure it out again.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by dragonwriter on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:42PM (#25488941)
> The author's bias about how the women, _who are actually getting monetarily compensated_, are the victims

Being monetarily compensated doesn't prevent being a victim, which is the basis of all labor protection legislation beyond “workers must get paid at least a token amount”.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by mbrodersen on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:25AM (#25493918)
If I understand it correctly, the sex workers are adults who has signed contracts to do a specific job for a specific amount of $ The same as a factory worker who might end up loosing their health or lives doing their job. What is the difference exactly?
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by dragonwriter on Monday December 21, 2020 @10:20AM (#25495689)
> What is the difference exactly?

The difference is that when widespread systemic labor abuses are revealed in a manufacturing industry, people who aren't members of the capitalist class or spokespeople for the firms in the industry have no problem recognizing that the factory workers are victims.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by imbnwa on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:34PM (#25489746)
No one put a gun to that guy's head, society won't even ask him any questions about nor assume what he does in his personal time, whereas that same politeness doesn't extend to sex workers. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the difference between these two goes, as I see it
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by cbozeman on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:12PM (#25490490)
Well if we're going to go this route, no one put a gun to the girl's head either.

She just didn't want to work night shift at 7/11 for $10-$15 an hour. In Fort Worth, I've seen night shift "supervisors" for the convenience store where I usually stop for gas being offered $18-$22, starting salary. With 1 year experience. Yes, that's a shitty job, on a shitty shift, and the pay is nothing to write home about at $36,000 - $44,000 a year, but for someone with nothing more than a high school degree, and clearly a tremendous lack of applicable skills, it isn't terrible.

If these women want to do porn instead of slaving away at Walmart, hey, more power to them. I don't begrudge you your choice, but don't act like there's no alternative. Entirely too many people make the claim that "there are no jobs for me!" when what they mean is, "There aren't any jobs that I want to do, I'm not supposed to be a janitor, I'm supposed to be a TikTok star!!"

That's the big fucking lie our society has told people for the past 40+ years. Most of us, even most of us in high positions in respected companies, are easily replaceable cogs.

A lot of people were very concerned about Apple's future when Steve Jobs died. Looking at the M1 chip, it seems like Tim Cook and Apple will be just fine.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by thatcat on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:09AM (#25492520)
Yea no one wants to work at walmart and no one wants to shop at walmart, but hey look at how many walmarts there are. When people complain that there are no jobs they mean there are no meaningful careers, not that there aren't enough walmarts to work at.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by cbozeman on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:16AM (#25492553)
Yeah, according to Keynes we were all supposed to have 15 hour work weeks by now... makes you wonder what exactly went wrong.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Johnjonjoan on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:38PM (#25497903)
Keynes forgot about greed. He thought after making workers 2.5x more efficient the machine would be happy with still making 1x the product.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by cbozeman on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:47PM (#25501174)
I really hope this isn't the ultimate answer, because if so, that's extremely disappointing.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by ahelwer on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:41AM (#25486978)
Not really? I can't think of the last time a prominent newspaper named & shamed a random working man for spending money on porn, whereas that happened with the NY Post and a paramedic with an onlyfans just last week. Your view of reality is wildly distorted.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by hhjinks on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:55AM (#25487087)
Nowhere in the comment you're replying to is it stated or even implied that men suffer a significant social stigma from consuming porn, nor that women DON'T suffer a social stigma for producing it. The viewpoint you describe is certainly twisted, but it hasn't actually been expressed by anyone.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Chris2048 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:37PM (#25488910)
> named & shamed a random working man for spending money on porn

How would they find out?

[dead]
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by computerphage on Sunday December 20, 2020 @11:23AM (#25487311)
I don't know enough to decide with certainty if the post in question is right, but it definitely seems earnest. I believe the poster sincerely holds those beliefs.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Fargren on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:09PM (#25487720)
People seriously believe being advertised at is "just as much a negative" as the stigma from being a porn actress? I have no appreciation for the advertising industry, but this is hard for me to believe.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by ALittleLight on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:47PM (#25488972)
I don't know about "just as much". Negatives like these are hard to quantify and therefore hard to compare. What the men are paying for on OnlyFans is a pseudo-connection or a fake relationship. This strikes me as being emotionally, sexually, or romantically manipulative or exploitative.

Of course the men choose to contribute but the incentive structure is for the women to foster a sense of intimacy or connection so they can exploit it for cash. It's a voluntary association, but it doesn't seem like a morally neutral or harmless association to me.

This is not to say that the harm men face from exploitation is greater than the harm that women face - or that women don't also face this phenomenon, but just that it is also a harmful byproduct of the service.

Re:The Internet Is for Porn by GoblinSlayer on Monday December 21, 2020 @03:15PM (#25499037)
I think what was meant is a belief that porn addiction causes brain damage (to the addict).
[dead]
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Anon1096 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:17PM (#25488769)
How is making an OnlyFans account, where the content creator is completely in control of their actions, in any way comparable to pimping? There isn't even a "pimp" in this scenario. The women have 100% agency in when, how, and what to post. To me that does seem pretty liberating.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by salmon30salmon on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:48PM (#25488981)
You are assuming that the creator of the OnlyFans site is not under duress in any way. You are also assuming that the creator and maintainer of the site is the same person who is featured on the site. Exploitation of women (and men) can happen even in the most seemingly egalitarian of communities.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by rowanG077 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:06PM (#25489498)
Almost everybody who has a job to make money is under duress. Do you think the garbage collector just does that job because it's their hobby?
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by mbrodersen on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:29AM (#25493931)
Millions of men and woman are exploited every day doing regular factory/office work. Factory workers risk their limbs and lives every day they go to work. So you obviously want to stop that as well right? Or if not: Why not?
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by OwlsParlay on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:42PM (#25488942)
The topic of sex work is probably one of the last contentious issues in feminism - is it exploitative or is it empowering? Is it just like any other form of work or is the sexual aspect inherently more dehummanising and alientating than normal work?
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by mbrodersen on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:33AM (#25493948)
If a woman tries to tell other woman how to live their lives, is she any better than a man trying to control how woman live their lives? I think not.
Re:The Internet Is for Porn by Chris2048 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:39PM (#25488927)
> no real feminist

and yet this gets expressed all the time under the feminist banner. Either real feminists have no control over the brand, or it's been hijacked.