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Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by pjc50 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @02:54PM (#25480592)
Australia?
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by lend000 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @02:57PM (#25480624)
And islands. Australia may be a continent, but its low population density and lack of roads connecting it to more populous regions is certainly a contributing factor. All of the countries doing best are either authoritarian or effectively political islands (Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, China).
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by elyobo on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:51PM (#25481060)
"Australia" has a low population density because most of it has close to no population; it's easy to be mislead by this if you're not aware of how the population is distributed within a huge area, but the areas where most people live do not have low population density. It's heavily urbanised (more so than the UK), with the vast majority of the population living in reasonably dense metropolitan areas.

It's the willingness and ability to take effective measures, not the geography, that matters.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by lend000 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @06:03PM (#25482116)
If geography and population density have nothing to do with it, then I suppose California isn't one of the world epicenters right now.

Australia has a lower population than California, by the way. Obviously, its pop is mostly spread over the east coast, but compared to the UK it's extremely sparse, with no tunnels connecting it to the mainland. It's disingenuous (at best) to think that the island nations that had successful lockdowns were all doing something magically better than other places with significant restrictions to daily life like France, Italy, California, etc. because they couldn't realistically close their borders to ground traffic.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by elyobo on Saturday December 19, 2020 @08:17PM (#25482991)
Population density has something to do with it, you're just mistaken about the population density of Australia where people actually live.

And obviously you can close a land border as well, it's just a matter of whether you're willing to do it. Australia also imposed tight restrictions on most of the land borders between states.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by singingfish on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:52PM (#25481077)
My understanding of the situation in new zealand is that at the beginning of the pandemic (back in march) they knew their health systems weren't up to the job - NZ's health system is kind of bad - so they took decisive action to ensure they could keep the pandemic under control. I think they're a bit better now but they still lack confidence in their health system.

Here, nearby in NSW our public health system is really good. We're currently dealing with out third significant outbreak - seems to be an escape from an overseas arrival - but we can justifiably be confident that we are able to stamp these things out without too much disruption (relatively speaking).

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by mprovost on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:43PM (#25480992)
Great Britain is an island...
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by Symbiote on Saturday December 19, 2020 @07:05PM (#25482539)
It is probably the most connected not-tiny island.

(One of the world's biggest airports, several of Europe's busiest, frequent direct rail connection to the continent, frequent ferries on many routes, fully integrated free trade + work zone.)

"According to Getlink, the company which operates the Channel Tunnel, 1.64 million trucks traveled between the UK and the EU using the crossing last year. More than 2.5 million cars made the crossing, as did 51,229 buses and 2,012 freight trains.

Added to the even greater volumes of truck crossings made on ferries — the Port of Dover handled a record 2.6 million trucks in 2017, according to its own figures — it accounts for a massive annual volume."

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by JimTheMan on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:55PM (#25483972)
The UK could have closed all these borders down. They just chose not too.
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by tonyedgecombe on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:50AM (#25484464)
The UK could not close those borders down, we would starve.
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by JimTheMan on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:34AM (#25484843)
... you can still unload freight. You limit the movement of people though.

People love to make excuses or put up obstructions to an idea, but solutions are almost always achievable with a little planning, resources and the will to make it happen.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by lend000 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @07:44PM (#25482810)
Not to mention it has double the population of Australia and 80x the population density.
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by mhh__ on Saturday December 19, 2020 @02:55PM (#25480605)
Also New Zealand?

Our (UK) response has been a bit of a clusterfuck so far, we're not a good example to judge by.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by pjc50 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @02:59PM (#25480647)
Indeed. We could have chosen to be an island, but that would have meant quarantining business travel.
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by mhh__ on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:07PM (#25480714)
The comedy of errors around the government has probably been worse though.

Barnard Castle alone probably killed thousands, the way this government is doing contracts is probably criminal, we fucked up the T&T for months etc. etc. etc. etc.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by ljm on Saturday December 19, 2020 @05:06PM (#25481694)
A comedy of errors assumes some level of ignorance or carelessness, but we have 10 years (and counting) of empirical evidence that this government is acting out of nothing but self-preservation and malice.

Voting Mr Bean into office would constitute a comedy of errors; but what we have now (when you also throw Brexit into the mix) is far from funny.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by makomk on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:37PM (#25480949)
It'd also have meant severing food supply chains (and probably also medical supply chains and a bunch of others). The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. Ending that would make Brexit look like a walk in the park by comparison. Also, you've got to remember that the time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective was one where the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse, something Trump would do, and when Italy still incorrectly believed they had zero cases.
Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by pjc50 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @04:05PM (#25481191)
Only if you assume the worst implementation without thinking of the necessary exemptions. Obviously don't cut off the food supply chain.

> time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective

.. lies roughly from Feburary to the present day. No reason to allow travel from countries with significant prevalence.

> all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse

[citation needed]

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by mafribe on Saturday December 19, 2020 @06:25PM (#25482276)

   [citation needed]
How about this: https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/? Choice quote: Given open borders within Europe, a single country alone cannot keep the number of COVID-19 cases low

Let's reverse the burden of evidence, and request [citation needed] for your implicit claim that the open borders lobby is not relevant here?

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by nicoburns on Saturday December 19, 2020 @04:05PM (#25481199)
It wouldn't have been that hard to implement quarantine for truck drivers (cleaning cabs and switching drivers at the crossing, etc). Not trivial. But not that hard either. There would be no need to shut down the supply chains.

> the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive,

I'd argue that these were very much the wrong-thinking people. And that the WHO advice has been pretty terrible throughout. It seems obvious to me that closing borders is appropriate in a pandemic. The UK still hasn't done this. Lots of people were going abroad on holiday between lockdowns.

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by toast0 on Saturday December 19, 2020 @04:19PM (#25481311)
> The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers.

I'm not familiar with freight in Europe, so please excuse the diversion.

They drive freight vehicles onto the Eurotunnel Shuttle or on ferries? I'm guessing this isn't containerized freight, which would seem to make sense to transfer to freight rail (at least to cross the channel).

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by Symbiote on Saturday December 19, 2020 @07:24PM (#25482689)
All of them (there is also plenty of containerized freight on ships).

With the very porous border, there is little lost time through checks -- it was easy to send the driver all the way from Germany to Manchester. I think from leaving the French motorway to driving onto the British one takes about an hour by lorry-on-train.

By ferry, it's little different than going from Germany to Denmark by ferry. They will glance at the passport as well as the ticket.

Boarding the train : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8r0kjJvvIY

(Cars go on a different train, enclosed and you stay in your car.)

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by detaro on Saturday December 19, 2020 @04:25PM (#25481350)
> They drive freight vehicles onto the Eurotunnel Shuttle or on ferries?

Both, although more volume goes through the ferries. (tunnel trains is 1.5 million trucks a year or something in that ballpark if I remember correctly)

Re:London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain by Symbiote on Monday December 21, 2020 @05:40AM (#25493696)
Now that France has closed the border (first time ever?) we have some numbers:

“To put this into context, there are about 6,000 vehicles we would expect, just under in Dover today, probably I’d say 4,000 would have gone across from Dover, just under 2,000 on the Eurotunnel,” he said.

“But there’s probably something like 32,000 units that would have been the daily total so the vast majority including virtually all the vaccine actually comes via container.”

Containers will mostly be on ships, but some will come on normal freight trains. (Eurotunnel is the lorries-on-trains service.)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/21/france-ban-uk-...