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Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by jere on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:28PM (#25436116)
>In Tribeca, a wealthy neighborhood in downtown Manhattan, residents who left this year earned an average income of about $140,000, Walle said. The typical person moving into the neighborhood earned an average $82,000, he said.

I was going to ask if we might call this "de-gentrification" and if that's a good thing, right? I'm sitting here in disbelief after a quick search reveals that the actual average income is $879,000. So now I'm thinking those numbers above don't mean much of anything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tribeca-new-york-city-riches...

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by blackrock on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:53PM (#25436432)
> residents who left this year earned an average income of about $140,000

Averages tend to mask the true reality.

If a corporate executive makes $10 million dollars a year. And the next 100 people makes $100,000 a year. Then the total is $20 million dollars.

When you divide this by 101, you get an average of $198,000. Which is nearly double what the normal person in this example earns.

The better metric is to use the median salary. Which in this example is $100,000. And the executive’s salary is the outlier.

Then again, most executives are paid in tax deferred stock options. And they cash out for a pot of gold after a few years. So this distorts any estimates of general income and wealth of the population.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by trident5000 on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:55PM (#25436467)
Mean is not the same as median. Billionaires drag the mean average up but not the median average. Most people in that area are not earning almost 1 million even though it is pricey.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by mikestew on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:50PM (#25436391)
I'm sitting here in disbelief after a quick search reveals that the actual average income is $879,000.

I don't live anywhere near NYC, and probably haven't visited more than a half dozen times, and even I know that $140K/year isn't getting you into Tribeca these days (granted, I occasionally glance at the NYT real estate section). I would expect someone covering that beat to be able to do that gut-check and, I dunno, maybe double-check those numbers.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by jfengel on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:49PM (#25436381)
What you're calling de-gentrification isn't really the opposite of gentrification. Gentrification is the destruction of long-standing neighborhoods and the displacement of poor people, who may have no good place to go and lose their support structures. Often, those poor people rent their homes/apartments, and so they don't benefit from the increase in prices. Their rent just goes up until they have to leave.

Rich people fleeing doesn't bring them back. Whatever they suffered in displacement is just sunk. In the very long term it may form part of a new cycle of gentrification, but only after the neighborhood has lost a lot of its old value and is usually accompanied by the kinds of desperation that poverty causes.

So it's not a good thing -- though you're right that this study is so dubious that it may not even really be an issue.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by ed25519FUUU on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @06:18PM (#25436744)
So in summary no matter what rich people do, they're the problem.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by MetalGuru on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @02:20AM (#25439943)
Seriously. The argument is that rich people come in, raising rent due to increased housing demand and constant supply, which pushes poor people out. But the reverse (rich people leave, rental demand decreases, lowering rents and allowing poor people to come back) isn’t true. Makes perfect sense /s
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by jfengel on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @09:46AM (#25443090)
Yes. Every time rich people displace poor people, it's a problem.

There are a lot of things that rich people can do besides displace poor people. Maybe you can think of some.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by CydeWeys on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @11:06AM (#25444193)
Unfortunately we have zoned our cities such that we can no longer build enough housing to accommodate everyone. The pain of that will always fall the most on those who have the least to pay.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by vrperson on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @08:48PM (#25438044)
Unless you are rich, then poor people are the problem.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by momokoko on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @06:06PM (#25436595)
I sincerely want to know who can afford to live in Tribeca on $140k per year. Let alone $84k.

I wouldn’t put too much weight into this data.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by CydeWeys on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @11:07AM (#25444203)
A lot of these people living there have been there for decades. You absolutely could not easily afford to move there today making only that much, but that's different. We're talking long-term existing residents with locked in rent controlled rates and/or coop owners who bought decades ago when it was still relatively affordable.

And yes, all of the "data" in the linked article is complete garbage. Don't take any of it as fact.

Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by momokoko on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @08:19PM (#25451146)
According to this report the income of people just now moving in was $84k which as you mentioned is wildly incorrect.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by vrperson on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:32PM (#25436150)
de-gentrification is a good thing if you don't like cupcakes and cafes and nice restaurants and nice shops.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by wavefunction on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @02:54PM (#25447667)
Too bad people can't make cupcakes for themselves.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by vrperson on Thursday December 17, 2020 @08:55PM (#25462930)
That's a lot more effort than a quick 2$ at the corner cafe.
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by yurielt on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:41PM (#25436276)
ANd if you like payable rent non obnoxious hipsters and their shitty music, POC and people that have politics informed by more than buzzfeed
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by cmdshiftf4 on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @02:10AM (#25439898)
Do you know how I can tell you’ve never lived in a low income area?
Re:Fleeing New Yorkers resulted in an estimated $34B in lost... by yurielt on Saturday December 19, 2020 @07:27AM (#25477010)
I lived in the latino part of the brooklyn for a good time it was much better before the hipsters came I will always prefer that to what gentrification brings