News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by anovikov on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:33AM (#25384590)
The free speech is well... a lot like right to bear arms. While you only had muskets, right to bear arms had a clear benefit (ability to quickly raise reasonably trained militia ready to fight in days) and little risks. Now that you can buy assault rifles, and war has become so high-tech that people who are trained to use small arms and nothing else aren't of any benefit in it - it has become a different thing.... Which is not to say i am against 2nd Amendment, just that the situation changed and concern of many people are understandable.

Same is free speech: when actually exercising this right was about printing books of pamphlets that meant a certain level of financial and intellectual barrier to it, free speech was clearly all benefits and no risks. Now that literally anyone can invent his own conspiracy theory and post it on facebook - and with well, intellectual majority driving the views and rankings of them so smart content ends up unnoticed coz it's so nerdy - people are right to be concerned.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by short_sells_poo on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:05AM (#25384831)
> Same is free speech: when actually exercising this right was about printing books of pamphlets that meant a certain level of financial and intellectual barrier to it, free speech was clearly all benefits and no risks.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is also a very dangerous approach in my opinion. What you seem to be saying is: "as long as only the well-off - and therefore likely to be educated - people had the means of mass expression, dangerous ideas could not proliferate". Should it be one group of people, preferably "us", who decides what the other groups are allowed to think and discuss? To me this is much more ripe for abuse than the other extreme. Doubly so because the dangers in free speech can be much better solved with education and removing the ever-widening gap between the haves and have-nots.

So I disagree vehemently that the solution is to limit free speech. That to me is akin to cutting off our own noses because we have a flu. The root of the problem is elsewhere.

What does pretty much every malicious and totalitarian regime start with?

1. Ban free speech 2. Institute the concept of thought crimes 3. Limit education

Concentrating knowledge and intelligence in the hands of a few, and reducing information and idea flow to the masses.

Dangerous and radical ideas can proliferate mostly among marginalized groups who have been excluded from welfare for one reason or another. People who are gripped by existential fears and see little to no possibility of improvement or solution to their problems will naturally gravitate towards radical opinions because they have nothing to lose, no other options and nobody else listens to them. Banning their voice will do nothing just push them further away and radicalize them even more.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by anovikov on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:27AM (#25385441)
That's the thing: the concept of "human rights" was born in 1700s exactly because it was technologically limited to the people who invented it: the elites (more often then not, slaveholding elites!). It's just now it backfires because technology changed in the way everyone can use it.

And then again, it is mass democracy, which was always a mistake, and if it didn't exist many of the problems we have now won't exist either, it's entirely fair if voting is limited to landowners who have land giving no less than $X annual rent, the way it was in late 1700s-early 1800s America. And even more so when we have massive social programs so democracy becomes a death trap of freeloaders voting for even more free stuff.

What is the realistic exit from it? I believe that Chinese way relies too much on individual obedience so culturally impossible in any Western country. Returning to democracy for the elites and human rights for the (sub)elites too, is impossible because it's a catch-22: people won't vote for it.

Maybe something like Putinism is a good way out: keep democracy on paper but make sure actual voting is irrelevant, keep free speech on paper but make sure "right" content is ranked better than "wrong" (this is how Russian social media, which is KGB-owned, works, after VK.com acquisition). Of course it can't also work without some countries remaining true democracies - just kept afloat, with their social programs, with massive amounts of stolen money - because the elites need safe places to live in, after all.

This way, we will return to the "good old" American system of 200 years ago - except geographically, rather than racially, segregated.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by travisoneill1 on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:40AM (#25385558)
> While you only had muskets, right to bear arms had a clear benefit

When the 2nd amendment was written there were privately owned battleships

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by lldbg on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:57AM (#25384758)
So free speech was good, when it was restricted to the elite (those of means and intellect). Now that the unwashed masses, the plebs, have access to it, it's no longer good?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by anovikov on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:57AM (#25385760)
Exactly! And so was the democracy itself (in Washington's times, only 3% of people could vote and it was great, in Andrew Jackson's, 15%, and it was still sort of OK, but anything more was a disaster waiting to happen)
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by TheAdamAndChe on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:57AM (#25384759)
Now that literally anyone can invent his own conspiracy theory and post it on facebook... people are right to be concerned.

People always had the right and capacity to make conspiracy theories. They deeply believed myths, and could just as easily be manipulated. Look at the Salem witch trials. Look at the conspiracies that sprung up from the moon landing or the assassination of JFK.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by heyoo on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:19AM (#25385382)
The difference is in Facebook amplifying the content's reach just because it is controversial and generates interactions.

Most serious media outlets care about the truth of the content they share. Facebook simply does not.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by kiba on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:53AM (#25384722)
The problem is with facebook making a post viral. Anyone can post anything online, but it won't do any good or bad if nobody reads it.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:43AM (#25384653)
Where can you buy assault rifles?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by dTal on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:49AM (#25384695)
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by karaterobot on Friday December 11, 2020 @11:39AM (#25387630)
The person you're responding to asked about assault rifles, and you responded with a link about assault weapons. They're very different things, and this has led to a lot of confusion.

Generally, when people talk about "assault weapons" they're actually thinking of automatic, military-style weapons with large magazines. Those are "assault rifles", which have been legislated at the federal level for a long time. The laws are indeed complicated, but in general these weapons are hard to get legally.

Here's an decent explainer: https://www.ajc.com/news/national/assault-weapon-assault-rif...

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by MaxBarraclough on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:48AM (#25384685)
Some US states allow civilian ownership of automatic rifles, although it's typically a lot of hassle and expense with licensing and taxes.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by BrianOnHN on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:46AM (#25384673)
At the local "gun show." It's advertised on billboards all along the highway. No background check required!
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by DennisP on Friday December 11, 2020 @10:46AM (#25386998)
The only way no background check is required is if you buy from an individual, not a dealer.

The threshold to be considered a dealer is fairly low. If it's someone with a table, they're going to be a dealer. It's just that if an individual sells their personal firearm, they're not required to do a background check, and at gun shows you'll see a few people walking around with a rifle slung over their shoulder and a sign saying they're selling it.

But that's semi-auto only (one bullet per trigger pull). Fully automatic weapons have stringent federal requirements.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by sonotathrowaway on Friday December 11, 2020 @11:00AM (#25387178)
How effective would you rate those federal requirements on fully automatic weapons? If a person wanted to illegally modify a semi-automatic weapon to create an illegal fully-automatic weapon, how feasible would that be?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by DennisP on Friday December 11, 2020 @12:20PM (#25388145)
Must weapons that were easy to convert have been pulled off the market. AR-15s used to be easy to convert by buying a little part called an auto sear, but now the auto sear is considered a machine gun by itself, so you have to go through the same hassle to buy that as a full machine gun. Owning this stuff illegally gets you a ten-year felony conviction.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:59AM (#25384780)
Fully automatic military assault weapons? I don't think so.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by BrianOnHN on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:20AM (#25384934)
Welcome to FL USA
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:32AM (#25385009)
Where in FL USA can one legally purchase fully automatic weapons without a special federal permit?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by sneak on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:54AM (#25385724)
Just about any federal dealer. There is no permit required to purchase fully automatic weapons in the United States; you just have to pay a transfer tax. Unfortunately processing the tax payment takes about a year, in their effort to turn it into a form of permit, but that's not what it is. Anyone (without criminal background) can pay the tax and buy one.

There is a ban on the import and manufacture of new ones (for civilian use) in place since 1986, so the ones available for purchase (by anyone, again, no "special federal permit" required) cost about 10-20x more than they would cost otherwise, which effectively restricts them to "rich people only".

They're freely available, though.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @09:47AM (#25386355)
You have to pay $200 and send an application to the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms. It takes 8 months to a year; they will do a background investigation and send you an approval form if you pass. Then you can purchase the (used) machine gun. Fully automatic weapons are not currently manufactured in the U.S.

Florida, in particular, has banned machine guns like the AK-47 which is to say weapons that fire multiple bullets with one pull of the trigger.

Semi-autos are the dominant technology in firearms; when a bullet is fired, the energy released forces a fresh bullet into the chamber, ready to fire but you must pull the trigger again. This is known as "semi-automatic" and is legal everywhere, for now.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by sonotathrowaway on Friday December 11, 2020 @11:01AM (#25387193)
How difficult is it for a person to modify a stem-automatic weapon to make an illegal fully-automatic?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @01:11PM (#25388729)
Up until the Vegas shooter in October 2017, you could add a mechanism called a bump stock to a standard semi-auto AR and make it shoot continuously like a machine gun. The Trump Administration banned the device (angering quite a few of his base). Is it difficult today? Not for someone who has some knowledge and connections. The how-to videos and files are still floating around. It's not recommended, obviously, because it's now an illegal modification, but there are thousands of them already out there and it's likely people are still making them in garage workshops.
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by sneak on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:14PM (#25392941)
You don't need connections, it can be done with a simple metal coathanger and pliers in 20 minutes. There are instruction videos on YouTube.

It's a federal felony, however, good for the better part of a decade in jail.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by sneak on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:15PM (#25392945)
> Fully automatic weapons are not currently manufactured in the U.S.

This is a false statement. Only manufacture of automatic weapons for civilians is banned in the US.

Many automatic weapons are manufactured in the US for police/military/law enforcement.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by refurb on Friday December 11, 2020 @06:53AM (#25384725)
What’s an assault rifle? A normal rifle with features that scared people but have no impact on the actual lethality?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by jordanbeiber on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:00AM (#25384788)
A specific compact form-factor and multiple rounds in a magazine that allow for more rapid fire than a bolt action rifle?

I know people claim "hunting" with these rifles, but I think there's a shiny toy thing at play more than utility.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by refurb on Friday December 11, 2020 @09:17AM (#25386006)
An Ar-15 is no more compact than a hunting rifle. Barrel length is restricted by law.

And every gun I’ve seen with a detachable magazine comes in a variety of sizes. Hell. A Ruger 22 rifle accepts a 100 round magazine. Is that an assault rifle?

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by jordanbeiber on Friday December 11, 2020 @02:31PM (#25389743)
The Ruger 10/22 rifle with a pistol grip and a folding stock was classified as an assault weapon under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

The AR 15s come in various configurations and are quite modular from what I gather.

Collapsible stocks and vertical front handles etc. Clearly originally made for use cases that differ from hunting animals.

They look cool though!

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:20AM (#25384932)
No, you're describing a semi-automatic weapon, which requires a separate trigger pull for each shot.

Fully automatic allows multiple shots with one pull of the trigger.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by detaro on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:25AM (#25384972)
I don't see how this addresses anything in the parent comment? Are you trying to say they can't define assault weapons as including semi-automatics?
Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:36AM (#25385034)
Yes, assault weapons are a different category, legally and technically, from semi-automatic weapons which are the majority of firearms manufactured and sold today in the U.S.

The anti-gun lobby has conflated the terms to push a blanket ban on anything that looks remotely military. But functionally, it's two separate categories and fully automatic weapons require a federal permit that takes about a year.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by detaro on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:40AM (#25385059)
If you think that's the definition, why not clearly say that instead of playing this "let others guess what your definition is" game?

> Yes, assault weapons are a different category, legally and technically, from semi-automatic weapons

What's the clear legal definition of an assault weapon?

E.g. as referenced elsewhere in the comments here, the federal assault weapons ban clearly talked about "semi-automatic assault weapons", suggesting the legal definition was not so clearly "only full-automatics"?

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @07:57AM (#25385197)
I think I did clearly say that; what's unclear? The federal assault ban covers fully automatic weapons, not semi-automatic. Here's a pretty good explanation of the differences.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2017/oct/02/difference-be...

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by detaro on Friday December 11, 2020 @08:14AM (#25385334)
From what I understand, you claim there is a clear legal category of "assault weapon" you base the definition on. So where is that defined? Your link only talks about fully- vs semi-automatic, the NFA linked from there doesn't use the term, ...

Whereas past laws that used the term clearly considered it not to be fully-automatic only. E.g. the law that's commonly known as the "Federal Assault Weapons Ban" (1994-2008) literally regulated "semiautomatic assault weapons", a category which doesn't make any sense if you insist that assault weapons always are fully-automatic. So what's changed that you now can insist that including semi-automatics doesn't make sense? I won't claim I know all relevant legislation, but it seems pretty obvious that not that long ago, it wasn't as clear-cut as you present it.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by blisterpeanuts on Friday December 11, 2020 @09:52AM (#25386410)
You can read the exact definitions here, if you have the patience to wade through a military document. https://www.dia.mil/FOIA/FOIA-Electronic-Reading-Room/FOIA-R...

Certain military-grade rifles that are semi-auto but can also be made to fire fully auto are classified as assault weapons, officially and militarily speaking.

Civilian anti-gun activists just call anything "assault" that even looks kind of military, like a black AR-15 that might only fire .22 bullets, one at a time. By the way a .22 bullet might not stop a man unless it's a heart hit; this is why police (and bad guys) tend to use .45 or other larger caliber weapons. A .22 is quieter, less kick, cheaper ammo, and is good for killing rabbits.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by stale2002 on Friday December 11, 2020 @10:38AM (#25386897)
The "assault weapons ban" basically cosmetic features illegal. Which is silly.

This is precisely the problem that people have with the term "assault weapon".

If you are using the words "assault weapon" you are basically saying that you want to ban guns that look scary, because this is what the original assault weapons ban did.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by detaro on Friday December 11, 2020 @11:43AM (#25387697)
You'll note that the comment blisterpeanuts objected to didn't include any cosmetic features (unless you consider "compact" to be cosmetic I guess), but somehow that wasn't ok either. And note that he didn't object to the term being used, but to the term being used incorrectly.

But after a bit of googling I guess I found the missing context: "Assault weapons" being full-auto amounts to a US gun scene shibboleth to make it easy to dismiss anyone making the mistake of using the term without having to engage the substance, even if many people, including law makers, define the term differently.

"People call all kinds of things assault weapons based on stupid criteria, what specifically do you mean" would have been a far stronger point than this "haha, semi-automatics are normal guns and not assault weapons" game.

Re:We can have democracy or we can have Facebook by stale2002 on Friday December 11, 2020 @12:52PM (#25388530)
> "haha, semi-automatics are normal guns and not assault weapons"

Specifically, the assault weapons ban has nothing to do with banning semi-auto weapons. It has to do with banning things like bayonets on weapons.

Thats the point. The only definition of assault weapon, that has ever existed in the law, has been regarding banning mostly cosmetic features of a gun.

> without having to engage the substance

The substance of the assault weapons ban, is regarding mostly cosmetic features. It is instead other people, who are trying to ignore talking about the actual substance and specifics.