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Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by anonytrary on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:14AM (#25285643)
It might make the "nurture > nature" viewpoint interesting, too. If you create a zygote today and you incubate it 500 years from now, will it behave like someone from today? I would guess: probably not, since humans' physical evolution is vastly dominated by their cultural/technological/societal evolution.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by est31 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:34AM (#25285754)
Behaviour is influenced both from genetic origins as well as from environmental ones. The latter includes things like "how you were raised" but also which hormones and stimuli you were exposed to during gestation. Newborn babies already cry in different ways depending on the languages they were exposed to during pregnancy.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by anonytrary on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:52AM (#25285863)
Sure, but I doubt how newborn babies cry is heavily correlated with how they turn out at young adults... Medieval man born today could probably learn calculus easily because calculus is a standard now. I don't think intelligence has changed much.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by inglor_cz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:01AM (#25286667)
Medieval man definitely had the same genome, but not the same body. Factors such as availability of good food influence your growth. Medieval people were, compared to us, rather small, which can be seen from both their skeletons and various objects of daily use (height of doors, armors).

This indicates insufficient nutrition for most of the population. Famines were common approx. 5-7 years, so if you were one of the small folk, you experienced two to three of them as a juvenile.

And bad nutrition has some effect on brain, too, after all it is part of the body. I do not want to claim that medieval people would be unable to learn calculus, but those with worst food security might struggle.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by OJFord on Thursday December 03, 2020 @04:13AM (#25287078)
But isn't that also environmental? Diet of the surrogate mother and child growing up over the years?
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by inglor_cz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @04:18AM (#25287117)
Oh, yes, absolutely. Subsistence farming in mild climate isn't a great and healthy lifestyle for an ape which evolved as a hunter-gatherer on the equator.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by sam_bristow on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:47AM (#25286592)
I also expect that a large part of the average intelligence that has changed would be due to improved nutrition.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by astrange on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:01AM (#25286666)
It recently (last few generations) went down and then up again because we thought it'd be a great idea to give the whole world lead poisoning.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by dotancohen on Thursday December 03, 2020 @07:31AM (#25288225)
Just wait until you see the effects of >400ppm atmospheric CO2 will do to the distribution of arable land, and thus the effects on those species which depend on agriculture to survive.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by est31 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:42AM (#25290812)
Yeah, nutrition is listed as one of the causes for the flynn effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

The flynn effect has slowed down in the western world. This highly suggests not genetic changes but genetic potential being fulfilled thanks to environmental improvements.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by est31 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:00AM (#25285902)
That was only an example to show that environmental influences start very early. Your environment continues to influence you until you die, even if that influence in your final years is of a supportive nature. Many elderly people can live quite well in their homes they lived in since decades but once they come to a nursing home, they often become disoriented.

And yes, medieval people were as intelligent as modern people. Many of the smartest minds of humanity haven't lived today but hundreds or thousands of years ago. I'd put all behaviorally modern humans are into the same category.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by thotsBgone on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:19AM (#25285676)
> humans' physical evolution is vastly dominated by their cultural/technological/societal evolution

Statements like these only make sense in a narrow context. Unless you're suggesting a dog raised like a human would act more like a human than a dog.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by Iolaum on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:26AM (#25285712)
There have some rare extreme been cases where children lived with wild animals in forests and indeed they resembled their social behaviours. (Don't recall sources to include :( )
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by astrange on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:10AM (#25285964)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child

Some of these stories are doubtful and obviously none of them are all that scientific… for one thing why are all the reports from Russia?

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by sebmellen on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:11AM (#25286384)
The story of Victor of Aveyron has substantial evidence behind it. There are certainly very few feral children, but they do exist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_of_Aveyron

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by astrange on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:04AM (#25286682)
That's believable, but it can't teach us much because it's not an intervention study, which obviously you can't do…

> According to Jean-Marc Gaspard Itard, Victor was a normal child at birth[citation needed] but was neglected by his alcoholic parents from an early age.

Hmm. Did they know about fetal alcohol syndrome then? It's suggested he was autistic, which would've been true at birth.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by sebmellen on Thursday December 03, 2020 @05:26AM (#25287549)
That's true. Unfortunately real cases are few and far between, so they're hard to study in any sort of methodic way. Plus, as time goes on and society becomes more pervasive, these cases will get progressively rarer.

I think FASD is a good guess.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by gibolt on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:25AM (#25285705)
The context used within a single species seems like a reasonable application
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by im3w1l on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:28AM (#25285719)
We will evolve a lot more in the coming 500 years than we have in the past 500 years. There might not even be recognizable humans around anymore except for some backwards savages in a reservation.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by danielheath on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:42AM (#25285804)
What do you think is going to kill enough people to create such an unprecedented selection pressure?
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by im3w1l on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:47AM (#25285832)
We will deliberately genetically engineer ourselves.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by danielheath on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:16AM (#25286007)
A few people, I have no doubt. When do you think even half the population will be willing and able to afford doing it?

The desperate poor aren’t going anywhere.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by BurningFrog on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:37AM (#25286148)
When/if the engineered kids turn out to be really great people, most parents will want them.

Desperate poverty is rapidly disappearing across the world. Look it up!

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by v4dok on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:09AM (#25286707)
It does, but that doesn't mean that the masses will be able to afford it. Its like you've never seen a cyberpunk dystopia scenario. Honestly, this is I think for now our default.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by tomp on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:59AM (#25287010)
It’s actually the other way around. Women’s hips are getting narrower because the women that used to die at birth (because of too narrow hips) now survive with Caesarean cuts.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by neetrain on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:51AM (#25285854)
When genetic screening becomes common, gene-based persecution and holocaust can happen maybe?
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by astrange on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:06AM (#25285945)
Since most mutations are bad for you, wouldn't you want to screen for fewer mutations and end up with less change?

I doubt we'll figure out how to do genetic reprogramming on people. It seems like patching a few SNPs isn't going to do much.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by bserge on Thursday December 03, 2020 @05:53AM (#25287669)
Unless everyone starts modifying newborns, it's more like everything around us will evolve more in the coming 500 years and would be unrecognizable to us from now.

Our own evolution is slow, but because of our numbers and tech, we're modifying everything around us at an unbelievable pace.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by HarryHirsch on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:35AM (#25285759)
Hopefully the Falklands will still be around.
Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by neetrain on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:42AM (#25285801)
There will be no selection pressure.

As long as whether you can survive and make children is independent from your gene, Evolution never occurs.

Re:Baby girl born from record-setting 27-year-old embryo by est31 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:53AM (#25285869)
There is still selection pressure today, not because you are too weak physically to make children, but because of sexual selection. Many people have a hard time finding a partner, often due to genetic issues. On the other hand, many people have genetic traits that help making them highly attractive and able to give their genes to many people.

So selection is still around, but nowadays we select for different things than nature used to when medicine wasn't as well developed as it is today.

Note that this selection alone won't cause any genetic change faster than what existed in the past. What really accelerates changes in the gene pool is us deliberately doing them. We'll start with eliminating hereditary diseases, but I don't think we'll stop there. We'll likely study which genetic variants give rise to desirable traits and then make those mutations to upcoming children of interested individuals.