News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, Violence Soared.

Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @01:49PM (#25247043)
We really need to have a collective discussion on what "justice" really is.

Most people don't care about prison reform because it's a place for bad people who did bad things, and they don't deserve good things.

While that attitude is fucked up on the morality of it alone, it also ends up being pro-crime, as it promotes a system that is designed to create more criminals.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by Quekid5 on Sunday November 29, 2020 @01:52PM (#25247067)
"We"? I think a lot of the Scandiwegian countries already decided that rehabilitation is the best course. You may agree/disagree with that, I'm just pointing out that the discussion has been had (and is essentially over) in quite a few places.

EDIT: Also, I absolutely agree, fwiw. If the discussion hasn't been had in your country, please do push for it.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by danielscrubs on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:13PM (#25247210)
Well it’s not surprising. Prison is basically a school for criminals on how to become even better at being criminals. Our Scandinavian politicians are almost solely focused on the number off how likely a person is to commit a crime after a prison sentence has been fulfilled, and our stats say that criminals become worse, so they shorten the prison sentence more and more.

The prison system is broken because hanging around with morally broken people is not good for anyone.

Let me point out that prison sentences for minor drug offenses are quite rare so we don’t have much of that particular problem.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:18PM (#25247260)
The War on Drugs was literally designed to create more criminals -- and only in that has it been successful.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by lawnchair_larry on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:49PM (#25247948)
No, it was designed to reduce crime and drug availability. Nobody would design a program with the goal of creating more crime.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @08:03PM (#25249717)
There's plenty of evidence out there that refutes your assumption (happy to provide it if you're interested).

It's not that they wanted more crime -- they wanted criminalized behavior to wield as a weapon against people of color (and hippies, in Nixon's case).

If it was ever about reducing harm from drugs there's plenty of better ways to do that, don't you think?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:04PM (#25247158)
Sorry, I pulled an americanism and had the US primarily in mind :-). Scandiwegia is a lovely exception and should be rightfully proud of that.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by Quekid5 on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:21PM (#25247288)
No worries :).
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by ant6n on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:53PM (#25247547)
Wtf is Scandiwegia?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:46PM (#25247933)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Scandiwegian

First time I've heard of it as well. I like it.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by ant6n on Sunday November 29, 2020 @04:00PM (#25248041)
Last I checked Norwegia is part of Scandinavia (??)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by ant6n on Sunday November 29, 2020 @06:32PM (#25249135)
(I mean Norway)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by bigbubba on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:22PM (#25247303)
That prisons are or should be about justice in the first place seems worthy of skepticism. It seems to me prisons have many possible uses. Rehabilitation is a popular one, as is justice/retribution/revenge/punishment/deterrent (these all seem like different perspectives on the same concept.) These two broad motivations for prisons, rehabilitation or retribution, often dominate discussions about prisons, but what of the simple utility in keeping dangerous people away from those they might want to harm? A prison need not be inherently punishing to achieve this end, nor does it necessarily need to be rehabilitating (though rehabilitation would help keep costs low in the long run.)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by pstuart on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:52PM (#25247969)
Revenge should explicitly not be part of the system. Deterrence and public safety should be the key drivers.

"Rehabilitation" has a nice ring to it, but the only institutional approach for that is education. It would be cheaper to pay for an apartment/tuition/food than to house someone in a prison: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/05/19/how-much-does-it-cost...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:NYC Paid McKinsey $27.5M to Stem Jail Violence. Instead, ... by manigandham on Sunday November 29, 2020 @02:08PM (#25247182)
It's extremely hard to understand how things are on the inside without direct experience. This makes it difficult to even discuss the topic, even if you find people have the empathy for it. There are also too many vested commercial interests in keeping the status quo.
[ Parent | on HN ]