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Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by tpetry on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:11AM (#25217970)
Declaring a FAANG company failing because it‘s toolset is antiquated is the rare hn elitist opinion you see here more and more. Are startup people in the valley more and more becoming blind to the real world?
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by thrweo24324324 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @06:03AM (#25218856)
There is a certain kernel of truth to it. I work at Google, and doing anything at all is a chore - it's almost as if we're back to programming with punch cards.

It's not surprising that Python doesn't work well in such a high-delay dev environment.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by snazz on Thursday November 26, 2020 @02:04PM (#25222723)
I haven't worked at Google or any other big tech company, but I understand that Google's culture is far more like academia anyway. Compared to Facebook, Google prioritizes code quality over development speed. Other companies seem to fall somewhere in between.
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by kudokatz on Thursday November 26, 2020 @08:23PM (#25224819)
> Google prioritizes code quality over development speed.

That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here".

> culture is far more like academia anyway

Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree. The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appalling. Until, of course, you realize that all other FAANG employees still write loads of concurrency bugs and pronounce themselves gods for doing so.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by joshuamorton on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:31AM (#25226021)
> That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here".

That's certainly not been my experience (and I get the exact opposite impression from people involved in the formal readability process).

> Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree.

This depends, greatly, on what part of academia you're in. In many ways, Google is much better about correctness than much of academia (reproducibility, for example, is often near trivial at Google but uncommon in most non-theoretical areas of academia).

> The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appaling

There are tradeoffs here. On the one hand, you have tens of thousands of engineers, you're not going to be able to enforce perfection by every single one with the tools available today with a reasonable cost. On the one hand, I see evidence that Google is willing to invest huge amounts into improving software correctness at the lowest levels (like proposing and upstreaming changes to languages to improve correctness-by-default).

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by higerordermap on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:28AM (#25228140)
Hi, can you elaborate the high delay part? Is it the case that all code is accessed through internal network using FUSE or something? Or is it because monorepo?
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by logicslave on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:15AM (#25217991)
I'd say once you take a peak behind the curtain at some of these FAANGS you see that their once greatest assets are becoming liabilities. The magic of "FAANG" goes away. The innovative systems they all built in 2007-2012 period are now aging.
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by xorcist on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:53AM (#25218178)
What great revolution do you suppose happened in the past decade that made these tools obsolete?

To my eyes, we still develop software in plain text and the same languages are still dominant. It's still Linux and http.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by crisper78 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @10:27AM (#25220780)
so right, but it won't make you any money or get you any linkedin/twitter fans if you speak the truth. We have AI being tossed around like it isn't just database queries most of the time.
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by stgx on Thursday November 26, 2020 @06:18AM (#25218938)
A lot has improved over the past decade.
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by alisonkisk on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:08PM (#25221757)
The revolution was the Internet, bringing together a huge collaboration of open source devs vs the aging ivory tower in each proprietory company.

It's not just Linux and http anymore. It's frameworks towering up to the heavens.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by antoinealb on Thursday November 26, 2020 @05:48AM (#25218767)
I don't think I agree with you. Systems have been evolving, some are being deprecated, rewritten, etc. It might be true that the OSS world has been catching up so it is worth less to have a custom made solution. But the fact that systems are aging does not mean that those systems are becoming irrelevant.
Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by herodoturtle on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:46AM (#25218139)
An analogy, if I may share:

On the one hand I agree with you, in that these liabilities you describe are much like the legacy systems I see in our local banking sector.

On the other hand, these legacy systems just work. And adopting newer / more modern systems might definitely have advantages, but doing so creates a bunch of other liabilities - as I've seen take place in our new startup banks.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Of course that's just in banking. I most certainly don't have the experience to comment on whether the same liability tradeoff would happen at FAANGs.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by crisper78 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @10:29AM (#25220797)
FAANG's often don't have paying customers, banks do.

Its not being stuck between a rock and a hard place, you just need strong management that understands that changing whole systems is never a good idea without clear benefit, other than "technical debt" which is such a bad term for reliable software. Software doesn't age, im not sure how software engineers don't understand this, or maybe they do and want to write more s/w.

Re:An ex-Googler’s guide to dev tools by oblio on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:39PM (#25223351)
Software does age. Security ages, network protocols age, human related configs age (timezones, for example).

And that's besides tribal knowledge that goes away as people leave or retire.