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Re:The Mac is losing me by toyg on Thursday November 19, 2020 @03:43AM (#25147477)
I am heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem: MBP, iPhone, iPad, tons of apps. But I’ve decided I’m out. Ryzen-based machines have caught up; Windows has caught up; and I’m willing to give the Linux desktop the benefit of the doubt again. Every new macOS release I feel more and more boiled to death, more locked in, more exploited than before. Even the eyecandy, which was what I loved OSX from the very first release, is now utterly terrible and getting worse release after release.

I was happy to pay a premium for a premium platform, but this is not what I’ve been getting in the last 5 years - what I’ve been getting is a support role to the iPhone ecosystem that is the alpha and the omega of Apple’s strategy, and more and more restrictions to satisfy this role. Obviously this is good for them, but it just isn’t for me, so I’m out.

Re:The Mac is losing me by lazzlazzlazz on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:51AM (#25147861)
I regularly use both a Mac and a Windows machine, and I can't overstate that I've had the absolute opposite experience: Windows is a stale, stagnant, consistently shitty OS whereas my experience with MacOS has gotten slightly better.

I also have many phones as a result of work, and have preferred Android for years — but recently decided I prefer the iPhone for my personal phone.

I'm surprised by it, in a way, but Android flagships leave a lot to be desired lately.

Re:The Mac is losing me by toyg on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:58AM (#25147895)
I have long preferred iPhones - one way or another, Android always ended up feeling unpolished and laggy. However, since the "flat" redesign I have felt iOS is on a downhill slope. Apps are increasingly crashy, I even had a scare with the Google Authenticator last week. I can sacrifice some freedom and money for convenience and looks, but if one side keeps altering the deal I have to question whether the bargain is still worth it.
Re:The Mac is losing me by lazzlazzlazz on Thursday November 19, 2020 @07:50PM (#25156235)
I haven't had this experience with iOS yet, but I can say that Google Authenticator is easily replaced by Authy, which is superior on all fronts.

Google Authenticator feels like a side project that vastly exceeded its intended, critically important use.

Re:The Mac is losing me by MrBuddyCasino on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:34AM (#25147763)
> Windows has caught up

When did that happen? Just opened the system preferences on my Win10 desktop, its still shitty.

Re:The Mac is losing me by toyg on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:48AM (#25147839)
The new Windows Terminal app is nice, the overall feeling is not as crashy as it used to be, WSL is alright, Docker is alright, they are shipping openssh... Not perfect but macOS is hardly perfect too (and arguably more opaque when things go wrong).
Re:The Mac is losing me by je42 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:35AM (#25148107)
It still doesnt compare well to iterm2. So many features missing.

However, may be in a few years they could catch up ?

Re:The Mac is losing me by 1_player on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:47AM (#25148170)
Not even Linux has a terminal as good as iTerm2, yet funnily enough Windows Terminal is the closest one in terms of eye candy and ergonomicity.

I've gone crazy trying to find a good, maintained GNOME terminal with good implementation of Smart Copy (Ctrl-C copies if there's a selection, which is unnecessary under OSX) and some semblance of UI. Kitty was the best but it has no UI, which means you need a cheatsheet for the first month of usage to remember how the heck to access the scrollback buffer when you're doing some late night server debugging.

Windows Terminal has GPU acceleration, splits, a good implementation of Smart Copy, the fact that it does both WSL2 and PowerShell is pretty neat. No tmux integration yet, but I don't use tmux personally.

Re:The Mac is losing me by wayneftw on Thursday November 19, 2020 @11:31AM (#25151128)
> Ctrl-C copies if there's a selection, which is unnecessary under OSX

That's because macOS uses a wholly different keyboard shortcut for copy which is only a standard for Apple. The rest of the world uses the IBM CUA standard at their core. On a Linux desktop, you use `Ctrl+Shift+C` to copy when in the terminal. Alternatively, you can re-bind Super+C and Super+V to copy and paste - then it's just like your Mac. But I wouldn't do that [0].

Macs have all sorts of inconsistencies and hardships for keyboard users. For instance, open the `About this Mac` window (or any app running in the menubar which is not a System Preferences app) and then move focus away from that program. Now try to use the keyboard to switch back to it. You can't. The only way you can do that is by starting `About this Mac` over again via Spotlight or by focusing on the menu (Fn+Ctrl+F2) to restart it.

Aside from that, if you don't want to memorize keyboard shortcuts on your Mac you have to at least memorize the cryptic symbols that they show in the program menus. A sane OS shows the same words that are typically printed on a keyboard (Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Esc) whereas macOS shows you a caret symbol, a long up arrow arrow symbol, a lambda symbol or the "Escape" symbol that looks too much like the international symbol for the power button... and then they don't print those symbols anywhere on the laptop's keyboard. Those symbols are only printed on the external Mac keyboards, not the ones that come with your Macbook.

[0] Macs have so many limitations. You can't even easily change the mouse pointer color from black to white without buying a third party program - and even then - that program didn't exist for a long, long time. I've tried to force my Mac to be an OS that I like by getting rid of the hideous global menu bar and replacing the brain-dead dock with uBar, using Witch instead of Cmd+Tab, using Karabiner to modify all the keyboard shortcuts and so forth and so on... It's not worth it and things will break often. So now I just use it the way it was intended (but only when I have to - I vastly prefer XFCE and Linux).

Re:The Mac is losing me by francisl on Thursday November 19, 2020 @09:09PM (#25156677)
On macOs, it's the same shortcuts as Emacs. Except the `ctrl+x+[other]` uses the command key.

IMO its significantly superior for programming.

It's also the reason there is less key on the keyboard, it's simply more efficient. Plus, you have the benefits of having the same bindings in all the apps. Either it's the terminal, your mail client or your IDE. `cmd+s` or `ctrl+x` or `ctrl+q` or name it, always do the same thing. That can't be said for any other desktop.

I know you can configure Gnome to have emacs keybinds, but it's not the same and many apps break the users configured.

Re:The Mac is losing me by wayneftw on Friday November 20, 2020 @09:48AM (#25160897)
> That can't be said for any other desktop.

The vast, vast majority of my Linux and Windows desktop apps share the same core keyboard shortcuts. `Ctrl+S` is always save, `Ctrl+X always cuts and `Ctrl+W` always closes the current window. The terminal is one program that doesn't - but that's fine with me because I don't think of it as just another program - it's more like a wholly different operating system or subsystem. Aside from that, the amount of work I have to do with memorizing extra keyboard shortcuts like `Ctrl+Shift+C` for the terminal is still overall less than what I'd have to do on a Mac.

I can operate the entirety of Windows or XFCE with just a few shortcuts that I've memorized (or not) while macOS will have you using the mouse or memorizing hundreds of distinct shortcuts - one for each separate function. Even something simple like switching windows - on a Mac you have to memorize 2 separate shortcuts - one for switching between programs and another for switching between windows in that program.

Macs also don't have keyboard acceleration via the "Alt key + underlined letter in context menu." They also don't have a dedicated right-click key. These are super useful since I can hit a key to bring up a menu and then hit another key to activate a menu item - no memorization required.

I've never seen anyone operate a Mac with just their keyboard. Anyone I've ever observed on a Mac used the touchpad very heavily with low efficiency.

Re:The Mac is losing me by mariusor on Friday November 20, 2020 @04:56AM (#25158950)
I think Tilix is the best GTK3 terminal on linux. I am not sure about its development status though, I seem to remember its maintainer wanting to stop working on it at one point, but the github history seems active enough.
Re:The Mac is losing me by 1_player on Friday November 20, 2020 @08:31PM (#25167157)
Agreed, but it has a buggy implementation of Smart Copy, so I had to use something else
Re:The Mac is losing me by mariusor on Saturday November 21, 2020 @09:47AM (#25169994)
Could you please tell me what you mean by buggy smart copy? I don't think I know the term.
Re:The Mac is losing me by je42 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:21PM (#25155074)
Yeah, same here. also went on terminal search for linux. In the end Terminator won over kitty for me. Because Terminator had better (simpler to use) pane support. Unfortunately, it doesnt have all of the iterm2 pane features :(
Re:The Mac is losing me by kyriakos on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:53AM (#25148206)
Windows terminal seems to have everything I need. What features are missing I'm reall curious what I could be missing and not being aware
Re:The Mac is losing me by je42 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @10:06AM (#25150232)
- ui to configure options. currently it is editing json

- back then i was missing, pane zoom (only recently got added).

- looking at the docs, i think cycling through zoomed / unzoomed panes is stil not yet there. i might be wrong.

- configuring how the split lines looks of the terminal.

- moving panes to other tabs

found the ticket around panes: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/1000

there is quite some todo left.

Re:The Mac is losing me by mosselman on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:20AM (#25147687)
Give Pop!_OS a try. It is great for gaming. I have a very old Intel i5 (2500k) and a Nvidia GTX 970 (I think) and I have a very solid gaming experience with Steam Play on it.

Pop!_OS is Ubuntu based but with Flatpak instead of Snap and without the Ubuntu calling home stuff. Meaning it is great for development. Last time I tried developing on Windows I remember being very frustrated. Now I don't have Windows installed on anything and I am happier for it.

Re:The Mac is losing me by apareis on Thursday November 19, 2020 @06:38PM (#25155733)
Do as I did and play with the various distros in VirtualBox for a bit. Have a careful look at the Desktop Environment, i.e., which one suits you. Doesn't take long to figure out whether a distro is for you or not. If you don't like it from trying coming from a Mac, then it won't be good enough for the long haul.

I've tried so fedora, Pop!_OS, elementary, KDE Neon. As a long term Ubuntu / Debian (server) user I was used to apt but would be open to other package managers. Based on my trials, I'm probably going to go ahead with KDE Neon, that is Ubuntu with KDE Plasma Desktop. This seems to be a nice cross-over between Windows 10 and MacOS with sane defaults but enough options to tailor it to my liking.

Re:The Mac is losing me by francisl on Thursday November 19, 2020 @10:54AM (#25150720)
I did the switch for my personal laptop when Apple added the touchbar. Telling myself about the same reasons plus the price tag.

I already had a Windows Desktop for game, and for the first time in the Windows history, I really liked what they did with windows 10. They also seem to be more invest in pushing the platform forward. And contrary to the popular opinion, I do believe in convertible devices. Also, I told myself I can also run Linux for development.

I then bought an HP laptop with similar spec than the MBP, for about 500$CAD less. Seem like a real save, but god I was wrong.

The fun with Linux lasted for less than a month before I just gave up.

The consistent (across all apps and terminal), powerful default emacs key bindings on the macs is a gem for programming and productivity. I miss that all day.

The touchpad is mediocre, they are all mediocre, never saw one working as good as the MBP. Even when someone told me that they're working great and let me try it, it was clear they never work with a MBP or don't use it that much.

Native apps in general, like photo, video editing, notes etc. are more polish and perform better on the mac. Web app though is quite different. icloud.com is terrible compare to onedrive.

Resume, battery life, screen, even if the tech specs sheet says it's the same, it's not in real life.

It's hard to put a price on all that, but at the end, I didn't save 500$ in value, I lost way more than that. Moreover, comparable specs, innovative devices like the surface line, are now price about the same.

Re:The Mac is losing me by falseAss on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:28AM (#25147731)
Did you find any decent alternative laptop?

I find my daily routines have been deeply overfitted to macbook/macOS on a firmware level. The sunk cost can be quite staggering for users like me.

Re:The Mac is losing me by toyg on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:52AM (#25147868)
I've been pleasantly impressed by the Ryzen-based Thinkpad. It feels solid, unlike the Dell XPS I've tried in the past. I'm not particularly mobile anyway, at the moment, and I have a dedicated room for working from home, so I'm just tempted to get a desktop next.