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Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by Dumblydorr on Sunday November 15, 2020 @09:06AM (#25101253)
Do other folks agree with PG that the economy is a rounding error compared to the quality of the founders?

To me, it sounds like a hammer saying all that matters is the nail, not the substrate you're attempting to pierce. I think it's his job to believe in the "great man" theory, and to not credit circumstances, luck, etc. PG is in YC and their whole raison d'etre is attempting to choose great founders.

Is there a statistical analysis of YC and PG which shows they choose effectively?

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by tomhoward on Sunday November 15, 2020 @09:22AM (#25101385)
> Do other folks agree with PG that the economy is a rounding error compared to the quality of the founders?

When I was in YC (in 2009, a few months after this essay was published), I remember PG saying that plenty of VCs, (specifically Marc Andreessen, as an example), pay just as much/more attention to market/macro conditions as they do to founder talent, but added that this is a luxury Andreessen has when all the very best companies want to be funded by Andreessen, so he can pick companies that have both great founders and favourable market conditions.

> I think it's his job to believe in the "great man" theory, and to not credit circumstances, luck, etc

PG acknowledges often that luck plays a critical role in success. But the point is that weak founders with all the luck in the world won't achieve much, whereas great founders with only a little bit of luck can be hugely successful.

He also points out that it's a long journey, much longer than a downturn will last, so better to start now when you're inspired, especially when the downturn can bring favourable conditions (like cheaper talent, rent, services, etc).

YC is also quite happy to back founders a second time. Off the top of my head, Stripe, Twitch and Cruise were all founded by 2nd or 3rd-time founders. So YC's approach is to find founders with potential, get them into their network, then support them for as long as they need to find success.

> Is there a statistical analysis of YC and PG which shows they choose effectively?

Some people have tried to evaluate this quantitively or qualitatively, but most miss the point, or can't evaluate it correctly without knowing YC's financials, which nobody outside YC management and their investors knows.

YC's approach isn't to try to "choose" only the good founders. Their approach is to cast a very wide net, to invest in a huge number of companies including some very crazy-looking ones, knowing that only a handful will win big but that will yield big enough returns to more than pay for all the losses.

So the question is not whether they chose good founders and rejected bad ones, but whether they backed a big enough and broad enough pool of companies to get a significant number of huge winners - like, say, Dropbox, Airbnb, Twitch, Segment, Cruise, Coinbase, Instacart, Flexport, Brex.

Answer: yes, evidently.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by jt2190 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @11:01AM (#25102135)
> ...weak founders with all the luck in the world won't achieve much, whereas great founders with only a little bit of luck can be hugely successful.

To clarify a bit here, it’s very hard to know in advance that a founder will be “great”, so I suspect that there are some rough proxies that investors use, and what you or I think of as “great” may not be what the marketplace of investors values when “shopping” for “great” founders to back.

For example, academic achievement. Is that something that makes a founder great? What about social connections? What about dogged determination? Each investor will have a theory, and one or two might even be right.

Probably the only thing that really matters is “the founder actually got the company to a point where it can generate revenue”, and the rest is wait and see.

Which leads back to your excellent summation:

> So the question is not whether they chose good founders and rejected bad ones, but whether they backed a big enough and broad enough pool of companies to get a significant number of huge winners...

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by tomhoward on Sunday November 15, 2020 @07:45PM (#25106621)
> What about dogged determination

PG said often back then that this is what they think matters most. I was there when he was taking about it in a casual chat with a group of the batch members after one Tuesday night dinner, and he said something along the line of “if only we could do something like coat the floor between the front door and the interview room in a highly slippery liquid, and the people who make it to the room get funded”.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by alisonkisk on Sunday November 15, 2020 @11:42AM (#25102488)
It's absurd to say that only a little bit of luck is necessary.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by tomhoward on Sunday November 15, 2020 @05:09PM (#25105392)
It’s lame conduct to pick a single phrase out of a much longer comment, wrap that phrase in a new sentence to make it mean something entirely different to what was originally written, then deride that as “absurd”.

Luck is not objectively definable or measurable, and is highly contextual. Was the pandemic bad luck or good luck for Airbnb? It instantly caused hundreds of millions of dollars of lost bookings, forcing staff layoffs and requiring an emergency $1b loan to keep the company alive. But now it’s reported their bookings are stronger than ever, due to people’s different living/working arrangements in response to the pandemic. Maybe it would look like terrible luck if the company/founders hadn’t been formidable and skilled enough to navigate through the initial shock in March-April, leading to the company collapsing. Thanks to getting through to the point where they now have higher-than-ever bookings, it looks like great luck.

Anyway, clearly the point of my sentence about luck was that good luck is necessary but not sufficient; any amount of luck, however you define/measure it, is worthless without strong founders who can take full advantage of it.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by DangitBobby on Sunday November 15, 2020 @01:39PM (#25103528)
If you are successful, it's gratifying to think that your circumstances are as much about things inside of your control as outside. If you are not, the opposite is a comfort. I find myself to be moderately successful due to a hearty helping of merit with an enormous mountain of luck.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by bnonhacker on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:04PM (#25103733)
I totally agree with this. In terms of academic achievement, it's more of "where you were" at the time and overall competency, but reality is much more brutal. The luck factor is well-known in financial circles and business circles alike (those two are tied to the hip). This is why the adages "Control what you can" and "Control your destiny" are still hold true today. As arrogant as they sound, at least they emphasize pushing towards making choice in the face of adversity. Accepting luck is an important piece of humility.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by peterwoerner on Sunday November 15, 2020 @09:38AM (#25101512)
You can also argue that a recession is a better time than usual to start a company. Your opportunity cost is a little bit less (due to the job market), customers are a looking to save money are, perhaps, more willing to take on risk to reduce expenses, and finally there is more likely to be talent available at a cost you can pay due to layoffs and a slowdown in hiring among established businesses. Anecdotally there are lots of companies which got started in a recession, FedEx + the tech ones written in a sister comment.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by bnonhacker on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:05PM (#25103752)
YES. This pertains to the market conditions and even if it's a tiny company, it's still swimming in a pond affected by various macro-conditions.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by rixrax on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:05AM (#25101703)
Totally agree. And many bigger projects get canned or put on hold. Potentially making up room for smaller projects to implement a more compact product from a start up ( to get some quick wins ).
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by papito on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:47AM (#25102028)
This is why investing in small cap stocks/funds always pays off in a recession. They take off like wildfire during the recovery.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by moneywoes on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:50AM (#25102059)
Do you have any ETfs you like?
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by icedchai on Sunday November 15, 2020 @11:14AM (#25102248)
VBK (Vanguard Small Cap Growth ETF) has done well for me.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by papito on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:59PM (#25107827)
I would not dare give that advice. You take that risk :)

Go with vanilla small cap low cost funds offered by, say, Fidelity or Vanguard.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by danbmil99 on Sunday November 15, 2020 @07:16PM (#25106390)
In my opinion, the thing pg & YC understood better than anyone before them is that Venture investing statistically has a very very long tail pay-off.

By micro investing in hundreds (by now thousands) of companies at the earliest possible stage (where they could fairly ask for a reasonable percentage at a very low dollar cost), they vastly reduced the risk of coming up with no big wins.

This is all basic betting strategy for professional gamblers. You also have to know the odds, so I'm not downplaying the importance of evaluating founders and business plans. That's like the Blackjack equivalent of basic strategy and counting the deck.

Without a betting strategy that reflects the statistics of the game you're playing, the likelihood is you will bottom out before you succeed.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by dredmorbius on Sunday November 15, 2020 @12:45PM (#25103058)
Bill Gross (Idealab) feels it's timing that's the most significant factor:

https://medium.com/fwiw-for-what-its-worth/why-timing-matter...

Vs. team, idea, or funding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGY_9sFg2qM

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by inglor_cz on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:38PM (#25104602)
I sorta kinda think that bad economy could actually help some startups grow.

In bad economy, businesses are looking to cut costs and optimize their processes. So do people. If you can come up with something that saves people money or hassle, the rate of adoption may be sky-high.

If we take AirBNB as an example, it helps both travellers save their money, as the lodgings are usually cheaper than classical hotels, and helps people with unused rooms make some money on them.

Ofc AirBNB evolved into a megabusiness in the meantime, and you will rarely meet your host in person, but the gist of the idea is clear.

Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by dustingetz on Sunday November 15, 2020 @12:55PM (#25103163)
Is there a tipping point at which capital is sufficiently concentrated that the capital advantage outweighs the leverage of a four-sigma founder (.99994)? I don't know, maybe, but the capital can certainly make a two-sigma (.95) founder competitive, and a three-sigma (.997) founder without capital is probably f'ed. Or maybe a two-sigma founder with access to capital is the definition of a four-sigma founder, because how could you be recognized as that without having the capital.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by lazyjones on Sunday November 15, 2020 @02:31PM (#25103990)
The economy in general, with the variability we've seen in our lifetimes so far: yes. But specific opportunities come and go, the current situation can certainly make some ideas sufficiently profitable to succeed in the long run when they otherwise wouldn't be.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by Existenceblinks on Sunday November 15, 2020 @01:50PM (#25103612)
He might not even believe in that great man theory. Just let them fight, I'll pick the winner. Without the push, there's not enough predators to hunt for him since chance for success for a founder is pretty low, he needs more numbers of them.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by austincheney on Sunday November 15, 2020 @09:33AM (#25101467)
Some food for thought is that it takes time for a new business to achieve market penetration and that span of time is irrespective of and orthogonal to economic health.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by an_opabinia on Sunday November 15, 2020 @10:42AM (#25101997)
If you're making software, you can achieve market penetration in an afternoon by signing a deal to bundle your app on a phone or social media platform.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday November 15, 2020 @07:41PM (#25106589)
This is relevant to only a small segment of the market. A substantial majority of software development, even VC-funded software development, isn't something that can meaningfully be sold as a consumer-facing phone app.
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by ako on Sunday November 15, 2020 @01:46PM (#25103577)
That signature usually takes years of preparation and negotiation...
Re:Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) by alisonkisk on Sunday November 15, 2020 @11:45AM (#25102511)
For almost everyome, that's not an option.