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Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by lapetitejort on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:00PM (#25085284)
It should be noted that you should contact them about their mistake in the most private way possible, then escalating slowly as the need arises. This follows the "praise in public, punish in private" maxim.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by hammock on Friday November 13, 2020 @04:35PM (#25087779)
Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18:

If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.

If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by contravariant on Friday November 13, 2020 @08:50PM (#25089615)
Wow, guess he really didn't like tax collectors.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by bzbarsky on Saturday November 14, 2020 @01:29AM (#25090666)
You have to keep in mind that the way tax collection worked in that area at the time is that it was contracted out by the state. The contractor needed to deliver some amount of money to the state, and empowered to gather money from people; the difference between what they gathered and what they delivered to the state was their profit.

Tax collectors operating within this incentive structure were not likely to be very likable.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by Tuna-Fish on Saturday November 14, 2020 @03:43AM (#25091065)
And just to drive the point home, the tax policy that this caused was occasionally literally genocidal, in the most strict meaning of the word.

This was possible because it was a slave society, and it was possible for the tax collector to collect your children into slavery in lieu of unpaid taxes. In some areas in Anatolia, which were close to the border of the empire and thus had a significant military presence that the tax collectors could fall back on, so the local population had no possibility to push back, entire societies were ended because the Roman publicans collected all children once they reached the age where they could be profitably sold (circa ~10 years or so, and sold usually to sexual slavery), and did so for long enough that the populations collapsed, never recovered, and were eventually replaced by other populations transplanted from elsewhere in the empire. (Later, the power of the publicani was seriously curtailed, in small parts because even the Romans thought that some of their practices were abhorrent. Albeit mostly because of internal power struggles with the senator class.)

So yes, people in the provinces had plenty of reasons to hate the tax collectors.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by hammock on Saturday November 14, 2020 @01:01PM (#25094109)
Where can we read more about this?
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by billjings on Saturday November 14, 2020 @12:42AM (#25090551)
Sort of?

On the one hand, they were a cultural byword for a morally degraded profession at the time. "Tax collectors and prostitutes" is a phrase that comes up not infrequently in the gospels, and not just out of Jesus' mouth So apparently the practice of tax collecting was a little weird in the Roman Empire.

On the other hand, he was known for having dinner with tax collectors and prostitutes. One of his 12 disciples was a tax collector.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by jtxt on Saturday November 14, 2020 @08:53AM (#25092280)
Matthew was a publican/tax collector, so perhaps that was written from experience.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by anticristi on Saturday November 14, 2020 @02:22AM (#25090805)
In some places, tax collection was performed for an occupying power, e.g., the Roman empire. Hence, it was rightfully seen as "money taken away" instead of "funding public infrastructure".
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by herodoturtle on Friday November 13, 2020 @04:55PM (#25087981)
If he refuses to listen even to the church, then forgive him anyway.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by minkzilla on Friday November 13, 2020 @05:35PM (#25088376)
This passage isn’t as much about forgiveness as correction. You are supposed to forgive no matter what (77 times). But this is if someone is doing wrong and needs to be corrected. If no matter what they will not stop their bad behavior then depending on how serious it is they cannot be allowed to keep being a part of the community.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by jschulenklopper on Sunday November 15, 2020 @03:46AM (#25099427)
It’s 7 times 70, not 7 plus 70. Anyway, too many times so that you could keep count.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by aequitas on Friday November 13, 2020 @02:06PM (#25086087)
This makes me think, it is opposite to what mostly is used in open source projects that have bugtrackers. Github is filled with countless 'mistakes' (issues/pr's) people made in the code they published. Should there be some kind of way to make issues private?

Before I was into open source I was always afraid to show my code to anyone because of the critique I could expect. But some coworkers helped me get the confidence I needed to go open source (within the company, not public internet). Being completely open about everything and accepting critique publicly really helped me grow as a developer to also be open to others. I wonder if I would have made the same transformation if I was only critiqued in private.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by tsimionescu on Friday November 13, 2020 @03:18PM (#25086962)
Bugs are not critiques. Working in software development, you learn extremely quickly that everyone writes bugs, and there is nothing to be embarrassed about. The openness of issue trackers even helps elevate that.

On the other hand, it's not normal and not often practiced to go digging to see whose mistake introduced a bug and call them out in public on it - that would be what shouldn't be done at all.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by aequitas on Friday November 13, 2020 @04:14PM (#25087572)
> Bugs are not critiques.

Not only (technical) bugs are reported, but also design decisions and such. A lot of those things often come down to difference in opinion. I've seen some developers be really adamant about how a bug was actually a feature.

> The openness of issue trackers even helps elevate that.

I agree partly. For me it helped see things different and make a positive growth. But I can image some staying afraid to enter or be deterred really quick never coming back.

>> This follows the "praise in public, punish in private" maxim.

So like the previous poster said. I am wondering if Github et al. should not contain a private channel.

I have a email on my Github page. And besides spammers I sometimes get questions regarding my projects. I don't know if it is due to people not understanding Github that well[0] or wanting to contact privately[1]. But for some reason they didn't open a public issue[2].

[0] I've met a lot of technical people that just are afraid of Github because it is complex. Electrical engineers, mechanics, embedded engineers. People I figure would understand software development concepts.

[1] Asking a stupid question publicly could also count toward making a public mistake depending on how secure someone feels about themselves.

[2] There is of course also the discussion if issues should be your projects helpdesk next to being an bug tracker. And raising an 'issue' for something that might just be a question might feel strange for some.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by kbenson on Friday November 13, 2020 @05:06PM (#25088086)
> I've seen some developers be really adamant about how a bug was actually a feature.

And sometimes they are feature, and it's the users that are mistaken on what the project they are using is offering them. It's a fine line, I'm sure, but different projects have different goals, and those goals will align to a specific user's needs differently depending on the user.

> So like the previous poster said. I am wondering if Github et al. should not contain a private channel.

It might depend quite a bit on the project. In an open source project with many contributors, there isn't really any meaning to "private" other than "limited to a subgroup of the people that care", and those people may have little to nothing with the design and implementation of the items in question. In a project that is mostly driven by one author that controls it and accepts some patches, that might be a lot different, and criticism may be received differently.

There's a whole spectrum there, and even if you provide the tools to allow different types of contact, what's to prevent people from using the wrong tool most the time? Rust, PHP, Perl, Bind, Apache etc aren't going to benefit much for a private list for first contact of regular bugs, but people would use it. Meanwhile someone's random personal project is still going to get people making public requests even if they prefer them private. In the end, I think we're all better served by a "public by default" for open source stuff, and for things people feel is actually private (security related items, for example), they'll look up a private contact or personal contact for someone related.

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by anticristi on Saturday November 14, 2020 @02:33AM (#25090834)
I love critique. It means that someone cares!

I contributed to launching a few products. After countless hours of design debates, code writing, code review, the baby was finally ready to see the world ... but nobody cared. Not even a drive-by troll bothered writing "this is completely useless".

My Motto: "That product sucks, but wow! It made it on the shelf."

Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by dustinhayes on Friday November 13, 2020 @04:02PM (#25087455)
In larger projects bugs are rarely caused by a single person. With many people contributing to a problem in the way of code and reviews. The best way forward is for everyone to own the bug and own any potential solutions.
Re:So you've made a mistake and it's public by FireBeyond on Saturday November 14, 2020 @02:47AM (#25090876)
I think though there are still some elements, there is also a difference between genuine mistakes (bugs) and "knowing the wrong thing, and choosing to do so".