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Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by dheera on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @08:27PM (#24913630)
IMO the single biggest environmentally-unfriendly move Apple made is not allowing user serviceability.

Even a simple ability to swap your phone's battery for a new one would reduce a lot of emissions. But they want you to spend $$$ on new stuff, so they make it hard for you to fix. And on laptops, soldered SSDs, soldered RAM, non-swappable batteries. You HAVE to buy a new PC even if you just want a little more hard disk space.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by jjtheblunt on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:00AM (#24916352)
Might there be more customers asking for phones to be thinner than there are customers asking for swappable batteries? If so, that might drive the design evolution.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by efreak on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:39PM (#24924983)
Since when does any modern tech company care about the opinions of its customers?
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by everdrive on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:31AM (#24917555)
>Might there be more customers asking for phones to be thinner

But those customers have a worthless opinion.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by Olreich on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @07:45AM (#24917629)
Sucks to be ruled by a majority. Would be much better if you could have everything you wanted in spite of all those people asking for something different.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by vbezhenar on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @11:46PM (#24914926)
Replacing battery in iPhone is very easy. It's stupid to replace the entire phone because of battery. iPhone is a good citizen in that regard. You can either do it yourself or ask any repair shop.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by jzl on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:05AM (#24915751)
It used to be easy to do yourself but it's becoming increasingly difficult and risky given all of the advanced parts that can be damaged or improperly put back when closing it.

And starting with the 12, Apple now requires authorized repair shops to use heat to open the phone, something that was previously only done for iPads and was prone to causing repair problems for the casual tinkerer.

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/22/iphone-12-heated-displa...

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by vbezhenar on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:54AM (#24916679)
That's bad direction indeed, I wasn't aware of this change, thanks.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by Teckla on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @02:42PM (#24922539)
Phones should come without batteries. The batteries should be in (easily replaced) phone cases!
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by lemmonii on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @11:53PM (#24914973)
It’s absolutetly not very easy. I would say it’s very hard, indeed it requires a set of specialized tools.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by luma on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @01:47AM (#24915652)
The same is true of watches and nobody is calling for an act of congress about it. If you want something to be waterproof and small and lightweight, you are probably going to trade off some service accessibility.

They haven't gone out of their way to make replacing batteries difficult, but it is more difficult than it used to be before phones were waterproof and tightly packaged.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by Hamuko on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:42AM (#24917264)
>The same is true of watches

Sure, it requires special tools, but isn't a battery change on a quartz watch pretty easy? I think the going price for a battery change is like 10€. There can't be that much hard work involved with pricing like that.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by luma on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @12:06PM (#24920426)
I would respond that replacing a battery on a modern iPhone is similarly easy. The tools are plastic, cheap, and as others have noted, are often bundled with the battery. The only price delta here is the cost of the battery itself.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by dheera on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:19PM (#24924763)
Until everyone started wearing Apple watches ...
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by Teckla on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:00PM (#24922763)
The same is true of watches and nobody is calling for an act of congress about it. If you want something to be waterproof and small and lightweight, you are probably going to trade off some service accessibility.

My watch (Timex) does not require special tools in order to replace the battery, and it's waterproof, small, and lightweight.

I unscrew four small screws on the back using the same screwdriver I've used for years to tighten the screws on my eyeglasses. Pop in the replacement coin cell battery, and screw it back together.

It takes about two minutes and costs about $5.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by ashtonkem on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:38AM (#24916573)
Watches are a luxury product, and their environmental impact is effectively 0. The same can’t be said of smart phones anymore.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @05:35AM (#24916879)
> The same can’t be said of smart phones anymore

It can be said about iPhones. I like having a thin, light and watertight phone. If the cost of that is limited avenues for servicing, that’s a tradeoff I am fine with.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by majewsky on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @06:49AM (#24917308)
If the impact on society is significant enough, society can and does forego individual judgment. You wouldn't be able to put asbestos in your house today even if you were fine with the associated tradeoff, because society has decided that it's just out of limits.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by ponker on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:45AM (#24916615)
You do not need to make it end-user serviceable to make it environmentally friendly. You can make it serviceable with the tools and skills available at a mobile phone repair shop, which almost everyone has access to.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by vbezhenar on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @11:59PM (#24915022)
Those tools are cheaper than battery. I think they even sold with battery on some websites.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by jnwatson on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @12:54AM (#24915379)
You can pay someone $30 to do it for you.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by Spooky23 on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @09:40PM (#24914090)
I think the sales aspect is a secondary consideration. IMO the primary is ensuring that there are minimal incidents of battery fires or other mishaps. Avoiding that hazard plus the bad PR is a major consideration... remember when the Galaxy Note was banished from planes?

For Samsung it’s a much bigger impact. They have a wider temperature operating range and advertise heavily to police, construction and similar outdoor roles. The phones work but chew batteries — replaceable batteries would move more units.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by dheera on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @10:41PM (#24914471)
> minimal incidents of battery fires or other mishaps

How many times have we had fires with Lenovo laptops, Canon/Nikon/Sony cameras, Dewalt/Ryobi/Makita power tools, and the million other devices that have replaceable Lithium batteries?

As long as users are using OEM batteries, there isn't any greater risk of battery fires, and as long as you price the OEM batteries reasonably, users will use them.

In fact I'd claim that it's safer to have a removeable battery, because if it starts bulging, you can eject it, and dispose of it safely, and replace it, instead of fussing around with first getting your precious files off the soldered SSD while it charges a dangerous bulging battery before you finally send the laptop in for $$$ service.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by leptons on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @09:27PM (#24914005)
>Even a simple ability to swap your phone's battery for a new one would reduce a lot of emissions.

And add to that every other manufacturer that thinks they have to copy what Apple does (looking at you Samsung), and also removes ability to swap batteries and other things we used to be able to do every easily.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by pfranz on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @01:10AM (#24915457)
I know people have ragged on non-removable batteries for a decade now--and I'm not saying there shouldn't be any phones with that option--but it was terrible in practice. I've tried juggling batteries and it was super annoying. Sure, on a plane you could swap your dead battery for a new one (after turning off your phone). At the end of the day you have two dead batteries and have to charge one, then swap. Most phones didn't have a way to charge a battery separate from the phone for some annoying reason. And the tab on the plastic door often broke off.

Most people never had more than one battery and there was a lot of wasted space to make that removable door and compartment. Making all of that water resistance, like newer phones are, would be a lot more difficult.

When phones (and laptops) got rid of swappable batteries you could still take off two screws, maybe remove a small amount of adhesive (putty or tape) and unhook the connector to swap it with a fresh one. It's about as user-swappable as RAM is on most workstations.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by nicbou on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @03:39AM (#24916234)
The goal is not to swap them out during the day (that's why we have power banks I'd say), but to replace a battery when it can't hold a charge. Think of it like buying shoelaces for old boots, instead of replacing them.

My phone is fine, but the battery is slowly becoming too weak for my needs. I don't want a new phone, just a new battery.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by pfranz on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:29AM (#24916522)
If you only need to swap it out once every few years it seems like a huge waste to have a removable plastic door and separate housing taking up space. It's not too difficult to swap an iPhone battery yourself. iFixit has detailed instructions, but there's a bunch of mall kiosks or small shops that will do it for you in an hour and around me they only charge around a $30 premium ($110 total) more than the cost of the battery ($89) (I was comparing an iPhone Xs).

With the iPhone 4 it was literally removing 3 (sadly proprietary) screws and something like a guitar pick to safely pry it out. Those replacement batteries sell for $11. With newer iPhones, because of waterproofing there are more sealing adhesives and to make room for the stretch-tape you might have to pop off a few components.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by leptons on Thursday October 29, 2020 @02:28AM (#24927855)
No, the goal is to swap them out during the day.

When I'm seriously on-the-move, and the phone is critical to the mission, and I'm not able to be attached to a cord or carry a bulky external battery bank - a few thin, flat lithium batteries are an ideal solution. I'm talking about situations where high availability is key. Sometimes I bring 2 or 3 backup phones just in case, all the same model, and they all take the same batteries. It wasn't uncommon for me to have about 8 spare batteries on some trips. Half the batteries were always charging at a base station, and I would swap those out in a few seconds and get back out where I needed to be. Yeah it's not everyone's situation, but now I just need to have 4 or 5 devices instead, and have to use a stupid external charger which never does what I need it to. Operationally it's made me suffer having to use modern devices without removable batteries.

Charging from an external battery bank is just not ideal, it's inefficient, and bulky, and increases the heat of the device while charging which can actually be a problem in some situations.

Changing batteries takes less than a minute, creates no additional heat, and restores the device to 100% instantly.

I did this with every phone I had before they took the option away from flagship phones.

Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by mrexroad on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @12:14PM (#24920539)
Getting old boots resoled is probably a more apt analogy here. Soles wear down, take them to a cobbler—good as new. I’ve got dress shoes older than my teenager and they still look fantastic. My current daily wear boots are 5+ years old and have had new soles a few times. Sadly there’s too few good cobblers left.
Re:A Guy Walks into an Apple Store by BlueTemplar on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @04:36AM (#24916558)
> Most phones didn't have a way to charge a battery separate from the phone for some annoying reason.

Yes, this is the main issue. But phone manufacturers didn't care that's how batteries are supposed to be used, most likely because it would have sold less phones.