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Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by bufferoverflow on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:08AM (#24895738)
The patent protects from somebody simply copying the formula. Which is many orders of magnitude cheaper than doing research and development, especially on human subjects.
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by JshWright on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:13AM (#24895777)
Why does that matter if the research and development costs were publicly funded?
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by rhino369 on Monday October 26, 2020 @10:34AM (#24896555)
Trials and regulatory approvals are a huge cost too.

If the government paid for all of that (including opportunity costs + a decent margin), then the government should have asked for the patent rights (or at least a commitment on pricing).

Has any serious journalist looked into exactly what the world governments paid for and exactly what the deals with the drug companies look like?

All I can find are biased opinion pieces devoid of actual information.

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by disgruntledphd2 on Monday October 26, 2020 @02:10PM (#24899174)
The FT had some coverage of this, but it wasn't massively in depth. The one thing I remember is that the AZ would be sold without profit until the end of the pandemic, which was contractually defined as June 2021.

Incidentally, if you want serious journalism, the FT is worth paying for.

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by bufferoverflow on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:20AM (#24895839)
Because they can and it will make them a ton of money.

The laws need to change.

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by gambiting on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:25AM (#24895878)
But, for instance - public money is used to build roads, yet companies that build them make money in the process. There is no state-owned road building company. What's the difference here?
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by MereInterest on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:32AM (#24895958)
Public money pays for the roads. After the road is built, the road belongs to the public. Public money pays for the research. After the research finishes, the results should belong to the public, the same way as the road does.
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by FrojoS on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:47AM (#24896094)
The public can of course sell (i), charge (ii) or monetize in any other way.

(i) e.g. privatization of telephone networks

(ii) e.g. toll roads and bridges

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by reegnz on Monday October 26, 2020 @10:27AM (#24896486)
They belong to a publicly funded research institute that was given the right by the public to sell it's research to private enterprise.

The 'public' wanted that by voting in the lawmakers making that possible.

That's how democracy works.

Also we're not talking about physical things, but something 'intellectual' like software, so the comparison is inaccurate.

More accurate would be IT research done in a publicly funded university.

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by hobofan on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:50AM (#24896120)
> After the road is built, the road belongs to the public.

Depending on where you live, you could very well be under the impression that the roads belong to delivery companies, taxis, etc. (private companies that make money off them) as they are effectively useless to everyone else (= the public) while they are constantly blocking them.

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by eecc on Monday October 26, 2020 @10:31AM (#24896525)
That’s a faulty parallel. The road belongs to the public, while only the building is tendered to a private (in a presumably competitive market) to maximize quality and price ratio.

In this case the building is publicly funded for a profit AND the final result donated in “perpetuity” to make it a private TOLL road.

Double dip?

(I’m ok with subsidizing the research, and even negotiating a bulk manufacturing contract with an agreed margin... but a patent? Isn’t that bending too far?)

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by peterwoerner on Monday October 26, 2020 @03:08PM (#24899935)
My village has their own road building and repairing department--mostly used for repairing. It's called the department of public works. We have our own utility company too. Both of those end up being cheaper than the having private companies do it.
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by onlyrealcuzzo on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:31AM (#24895944)
You don't die if you can't afford to drive on the road. That's the difference.
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by gambiting on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:38AM (#24896007)
But most places(at least around the EU) have already announced that the vaccine will be free - so there is no question about affordability?
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by mrgordon on Monday October 26, 2020 @10:33AM (#24896548)
The taxes still paid for it twice
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by gambiting on Monday October 26, 2020 @11:28AM (#24897205)
In what way? Yes, the taxes paid for research, then taxes paid to purchase the product. But if everything was state owned top to bottom, the taxes would have had to fund research, then manufacturing, production and distribution. I wager the amount of money spent would have been exactly the same, so it's more like an accounting trick than an actual difference.
Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by mrgordon on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @05:35PM (#24993757)
Its not about manufacturing costs. The companies continue to own the patents and after some period of time have every plan to start charging for use of it. This means they can get rich for decades off of the taxpayer-funded research. Meanwhile the governments have agreed to take on the risk by buying tens of millions of doses before they vaccines are even approved which means some of them will likely be waste due to either not getting approval or coming after more effective drugs.

Socialized risk and privatized profits. A capitalist's dream.

To go back to your highway analogy, its as if the government contracted for the entire interstate highway system to be built and then let various private companies charge a perpetual toll to use the roads in addition to the money they made for building it.

Its not an accounting trick, its a perpetual royalty on the taxpayer's expense if the drug works (and a profit even if their drug never passes Phase 3 clinical trials).

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by __s on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:33AM (#24895966)
Is another state going to get sued for having a different company build a road of the same material? I dunno, maybe Asphalt Co should be getting license fees for every road built. Maybe even add a toll booth so drivers have to pay a license fee to Asphalt Co to drive on their roads

Noam Chomsky has quite a bone to pick about toll roads

Re:Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response ... by hobofan on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:10AM (#24895753)
> If the research has been already paid out