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Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by Osiris on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @05:06PM (#24852177)
The CEO of Quibi, Meg Whitman, admitted to not being an entertainment enthusiast. [1]

I realize that a company CEO doesn't need to be a subject matter expert, but when you're building a platform focused on millennials (mobile-first), it would help to have someone that can identify with the target audience.

edit: And co-founder Katzenberg has his "emails printed out (and vertically folded, for some reason) by assistant" [2]

[1] https://theweek.com/speedreads/923863/quibi-ceo-admits-not-r...

[2] https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/is-anyone-watching-quibi.htm...

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mchusma on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @05:41PM (#24852519)
I think this hits the core of the problem on the head, that Katzenberg and Whitman thought they knew what millennials wanted, but they simply did not.

They thought millennials wanted "shorter" based on the success of tiktok/instagram/etc. But their content was too long to be short. And the "golden age of TV" we are in basically proves that people don't really want shorter in scripted content. If anything, we want deeper stories. Novellas have never outsold novels. Movies were an outlier for a while, based on the fact it was so hard to produce content, but even movies are now becoming trilogy's+. Youtube is hugely successful because it satisfies niche content, the length is irrelevant.

They thought it should be "mobile", but by limiting it to mobile they meant that you could only watch part of the time. Netflix is perfectly fine on mobile.

The switching back and forth thing feels like a novelty like 1 time then you just do whatever you want and stick with that. Its also hard for creators as you don't know how people will use it, so you have to make it "worse in landscape" and "worse in portrait" so people can watch on either method.

I absolutely LOVE people taking big risks on ideas. This was just a bad idea from the start. I wish they would have blown $1.8B on some shoot the moon healthcare idea or something.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by TillE on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:45PM (#24853553)
This reminds me of how business types have somehow convinced themselves that the success of franchises like Chipotle is due to "choice", that people really care about choice in fast food nowadays. As if being able to pick from different types of beans was the key differentiator, and not making a popular type of food (not otherwise available at a national chain) and doing it pretty well.

A more interesting, much smaller risk would've been something like a sketch comedy show where every clip is under a minute (Tiktok style). Yeah a ton of amateurs are already doing stuff like that, but - hire them!

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by webinvest on Friday October 23, 2020 @09:59PM (#24876297)
Lol, Chipotle is popular with me because you get good quality food that’s healthy enough to touch most areas of the food pyramid all in one meal. Also a filling amount of food at a fair price.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by notJim on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:25PM (#24853405)
> But their content was too long to be short

Totally right, imo. I might be old and out of touch, but to me 10 minutes is way too long for content on mobile, and short enough to be kind of annoying on anything else. I'd rather watch a 25 or 30 minute show if I want something short on TV.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by r7ry4g4xtyg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:57PM (#24853934)
I can't help but wonder if this actually holds up under scrutiny. I liked Quibi a lot, the problem for me was always the extreme lack of content. If anything long format media feels tedious to me these days and I lean towards TikTok and YouTube for that reason. The problem that ultimately drove me away from Quibi was the absolute shortage of content. With even a little more content it might have worked for someone with a 30 minute commute but for someone locked inside due to Coronavirus there's just no way that their tiny library was worth the price.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mruniverse on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:27AM (#24854872)
I don't know, seemed kind of unique. It could have taken off. I can see another startup picking up this format and doing it better. Or maybe Youtube could just do it and add it to their offerings.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by weare138 on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @09:29PM (#24854074)
Who knew the former CEO of Hewlett Packard Enterprise wasn't a good choice to run an online entertainment media startup targeting young people?

'How do you do fellow kids?'

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jariel on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @11:04PM (#24854513)
Jeff Katzenberg, the co-founder, has been 'making content and selling to kids' for 40 years to the tune of literally Billions. Star Trek films, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, Shrek, How to Train your Dragon etc. etc. - just huge, monster titles.

Whitman was the 'Business Person'.

That said, the content format is really quite different, and it's hard to predict how '5 minute bits' would work, and they spent possibly way too much money on it, it would have been better to 'start small', to find the format that works, and then spend a fortune - which is probably something that Meg should have understood given her background in the Valley.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by dhagz on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:57AM (#24858049)
> Jeff Katzenberg, the co-founder, has been 'making content and selling to kids' for 40 years to the tune of literally Billions. Star Trek films, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, Shrek, How to Train your Dragon etc. etc. - just huge, monster titles.

My argument against this point is simple: few of those were original content conceived by Katzenberg/DreamWorks/Disney. They were existing stories (most already successful as books). The only things I can see in his filmography that are possibly original and hugely successful are Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Kung Fu Panda, and Madagascar, Road to El Dorado, and _maybe_ Chicken Run.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by fastball on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @05:41PM (#24852525)
Wow, people are still hiring Meg Whitman for CEO roles?

Interesting.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jedberg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:09PM (#24852780)
I've worked for and with Meg. She's brilliant. She's a very good manager when it comes to taking a successful business and making it a lot more successful.

She's not so good at taking something that is new or failing and making it good. She definitely made eBay much bigger than it would have been without her, but it was already successful and growing when she joined. She ran HPE into the ground because it was already failing.

She didn't succeed with Quibi because she doesn't know about how to find market fit.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by tmsh on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:56PM (#24853621)
> She's a very good manager when it comes to taking a successful business and making it a lot more successful.

Bit of a leap to conclude that right just based on eBay?

eBay would've had astronomical growth under a dog as CEO. As you mentioned:

> She definitely made eBay much bigger than it would have been without her, but it was already successful and growing when she joined.

And that's her one success story. She's had plenty of other opportunities to demonstrate management competency. I think there's a cognitive fallacy where we assume someone is good because they were there and we lived through things with them.

But as others have said, just look at her wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meg_Whitman

I think we should challenge ourselves when defending people just because they were there and they didn't fail.

I don't care how brilliant she was at delegating to managers across categories, etc., the world needs space for better leaders than e.g. those who support Prop 8 (were anti-gay marriage) etc. Like if you don't have empathy there, then it's unlikely you're going to be a better manager than, again, my dog.

A manager needs to be a leader. Perhaps she can delegate and she has an MBA from HBS and she's well-connected in Silicon Valley (I remember her connections to Scott Cook at Intuit, etc. - so much bad shit happened under their watch though, poaching, etc.).

But I don't think any of her behavior (unless you have concrete examples) makes her "brilliant" or a "good manager" - unless the standards are pretty out-of-date. We really should not be defending people who don't evolve (and who are financially very taken care of and have every opportunity to earn trust again, but don't).

UPDATE. I see some examples now in the other comments. Personally I'm not convinced. But that's just me.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jedberg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:46PM (#24853884)
To be clear, I'm not a fan of her personal politics in the slightest, and in fact that plus her love of stack ranking would prevent me from wanting to work for her again.

But I'm saying she does at least have some wins on her track record to justify hiring her.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by tmsh on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @09:11PM (#24853993)
Cool yeah. Makes sense.

I mean the good news is it seems like management has gotten better across the board (nobody talked about empathy even ten years ago). So that’s good.

Someone in our company slack posted this re: Katzenberg too: https://collider.com/jeffrey-katzenberg-disney-renaissance-i...

It’s just interesting how our former leaders might be seen in new light (but yeah not to take away from the solid wins they did have and I think it’s awesome she remembered people’s names and details - the average CEO in the generation before would’ve been hard pressed to do that). Perhaps it’s good that the bar gets higher and higher.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by tmsh on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:28AM (#24854880)
I was talking to my wife about this. And actually read her what I'd written (a Hacker News first for me). And she helped me see that I come off as sort of a woman-CEO-bashing programmer dude.

And yeah, I don't think any of us want that. It's fascinating though how we (not the OP, but perhaps myself and others) so easily jump on the criticism bandwagon for Marissa Mayer, Ellen Pao or now Meg Whitman. I don't think we do that for male CEOs as much.

Anyway, just noting it for those reading this later. Poor choice in wording in the above (I actually love my dog a lot - but the wording probably comes off as insensitive). Which was not the intention, but a good learning moment for me.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by quadrifoliate on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:09PM (#24853687)
> Like if you don't have empathy there, then it's unlikely you're going to be a better manager than, again, my dog...

> ...much bad shit happened under their watch though, poaching, etc.

If empathy is important to you, please consider not using the term "poaching". Employees are not animals that belong to an employer based on an imaginary hereditary right. They have the choice (and often exercise it) of employment at a new place based on the relative attractiveness of both opportunities.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by xmprt on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:00AM (#24854750)
I think the word poaching has taken on new meaning when used in that context though. I don't remember the last time someone used poaching when talking about actual animals. I don't hang around many hunters.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by Dave9k on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:06PM (#24859533)
Poaching has a much broader meaning than the one you describe. It's simply taking someone's property without permission. With modern employment contracts (non-competes/no outside work/drug tests...) I believe the comparison to property is quite apt.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by quadrifoliate on Friday October 23, 2020 @09:00AM (#24868990)
I don't think I understand. Under what circumstance does a company A recruiting away employees from company B count as "taking away B's property without permission"? There is no permission needed by law to offer a better employment contract to, well, anyone.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by CalChris on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:52PM (#24853911)
I didn't know that Whitman had supported Prop 8, probably a cynical political calculation during her run for governor. To her credit, she reversed course and quite publicly supported its repeal.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-xpm-2013-feb-26-la-me-pc...

I don't think EBay was destined by the gods for greatness. There was zero barrier to entry and they weren't the first. They weren't even the first coming from General Magic where Omidyar had worked. I'm inclined to give her credit for EBay but evidently nothing else.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by AceJohnny2 on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:33PM (#24852974)
Sounds like a great COO, someone who can drive and improve existing operations, but not someone who can come up with a vision or, as you said, finding a market.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by fastball on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:19PM (#24852870)
You can be brilliant and a good manager while still not being a good CEO.

If you can only do well in a company that already has a bright future ahead of it (with or without you), are you a good CEO?

Is finding and maintaining P/M fit not the primary role of a CEO?

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by drunkpotato on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:38PM (#24853484)
I'm curious how you would distinguish that from her presence having zero effect, positive or negative, on a company. I don't see how you can possibly know that she made eBay much bigger than it would have been without her. It seems to me just as likely that it would have been the same, and that HPE and Quibi were both doomed no matter what. On what basis is she brilliant, a good manager, and makes a successful business more successful?

The good CEOs I've worked under, had a clear vision for the company and were good at selling that vision both to investors (private and public/stock market) and to the rank and file during monthly or quarterly all-hands. Did she do that?

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jedberg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:46PM (#24853560)
I'll agree it's hard to say one way or another since there is no opposite case to test against.

But she was good at setting a vision, expressing that vision, and making sure it was being followed and getting her direct reports to move things in the direction she wanted.

As far as brilliant, I'm referring to raw intelligence. You could tell her new information and she would instantly digest it and apply that to new areas. Also, if you were in a meeting with her once, she'd remember you and what you talked about. If you mentioned that you had kids for example, the next time she saw you months later she'd ask how your kids are, for example.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by drunkpotato on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:07PM (#24853681)
Thank you for clarifying. I agree that makes it sound like she was a good manager. I'm curious, why did she take positions at companies unsuited to her strengths?
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mixmastamyk on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @09:56PM (#24854187)
Let me guess, the hundred-million dollar signing bonus and golden handcuffs. :D
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by pm90 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @01:45AM (#24855247)
Ambition?
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mmahemoff on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @09:27PM (#24854068)
Steve Yegge's classic "eBay Patents 10-Click Checkout" [1] was published a few years after Meg's eBay tenure, and sums up the lousy UX they never tunnelled out of.

Meanwhile, every history of Amazon points out how their third-party seller project stole eBay's opportunity by focusing on customers first and building a unified product hierarchy.

eBay managed to hold on by being the first 2-sided marketplace to gain traction, enjoying a huge moat much like CraigsList. Over time, it squandered the opportunity.

Meg may know how to keep a company in operation, but she's never shown she can lead a product from scratch. That's just a giant risk to take with $billions of funding at stake.

1. https://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2011/07/ebay-patents-10-cli...

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by idlewords on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:24PM (#24853396)
Let's not forget the time she turned $180M into a smoking crater in the ground in pursuit of political office.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by drunkpotato on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:39PM (#24853500)
Hah! I forgot all about that! Thanks for the reminder and the chuckle.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mixmastamyk on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @09:57PM (#24854197)
Trickled down, didn't it?
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by EugeneG on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:13PM (#24852814)
What makes her brilliant/a good manager? Just curious about what specific habits made her stand out to you/
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jedberg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:47PM (#24853565)
She was good at setting a vision, expressing that vision, and making sure it was being followed and getting her direct reports to move things in the direction she wanted.

As far as brilliant, I'm referring to raw intelligence. You could tell her new information and she would instantly digest it and apply that to new areas. Also, if you were in a meeting with her once, she'd remember you and what you talked about. If you mentioned that you had kids for example, the next time she saw you months later she'd ask how your kids are, for example.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by yumraj on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @11:35PM (#24854639)
So, eBay grew, but it was already growing, and HPE failed but it was already failing.

So, effectively, Meg's presence made no different. Doesn't sound like a good or effective CEO.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by CyberDildonics on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:46PM (#24853558)
"She ran every company into the ground"

"Yeah, but she has experience"

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by jedberg on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @07:48PM (#24853573)
Except her first go was eBay, in which she created multiple multi-billionaires. So arguably her first foray as CEO was an outlying success.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by cambalache on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @08:09PM (#24853689)
You should do like the judges and recuse yourself from this topic, if all what you are writing is true
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by saagarjha on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:18AM (#24854830)
This isn't a courtroom.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by athesyn on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:55PM (#24853168)
So, you just realized that companies play musical chairs with CEO?
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by cultus on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @05:48PM (#24852599)
It seems sometimes you just need to hit a certain level of status and then you fail upward from there.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by Thorentis on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @10:55PM (#24854464)
Diversity quotas.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by cultus on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:51AM (#24857976)
Please take your misogyny elsewhere.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by rchaud on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:46PM (#24853070)
Meg Whitman is well-established in Silicon Valley and considered to be a a safe pair of hands, which is crucial to have when hunting for investor dollars.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by abvdasker on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @11:04PM (#24854510)
After destroying $1.8 billion investor dollars together with Jeffrey Katzenberg I have to wonder if that reputation will endure.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by geodel on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:14AM (#24854812)
Unfortunately it will. She might fund a leadership institute at some Ivy league like another 'visionary' CEO Jack Welch.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by axaxs on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:46PM (#24853074)
Maybe after her string of failures she can just admit to not being a very good CEO. Before anyone argues I'm being mean, just read her Wiki page.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by ashtonkem on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:18AM (#24855371)
I'd argue that the CEO really should be a subject matter expert for the business domain. They can be ignorant on how it's all put together, that's the CTOs job, but they really should understand the domain.

I think the thing that confuses people is that the true domain for some companies isn't what the end consumer sees. I worked for a car website for a while, and very few of the executives were really car people. But they were all incredible experts on how dealerships worked, and that was actually what our business was, not how cars work.

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by _zamorano_ on Thursday October 22, 2020 @02:48AM (#24855494)
Perhaps, for an established company with a stable business and income going on, the CEO can afford being somewhat ignorant of the field they work for.

But for an up and coming company, everybody in the top ranks should be involved and knowledgable of subject at hand

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by mruniverse on Thursday October 22, 2020 @12:22AM (#24854846)
It was puzzling when she ran for governor. It didn't seem like she was interested in politics. It seemed like, "Well, what to do now..."
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by dkdbejwi383 on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:32PM (#24852967)
> not being an entertainment enthusiast

What does this even mean?

Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by taytus on Wednesday October 21, 2020 @06:46PM (#24853078)
Not interested in movies/TV/videogames I asume.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by dkdbejwi383 on Thursday October 22, 2020 @04:08AM (#24855870)
Seems such a strange statement to make. I could understand someone saying they don't like action films for example, but to state that you don't enjoy any film and entirely reject the notion of being entertained is rather bizarre.
Re:Quibi Is Shutting Down by taytus on Thursday October 22, 2020 @09:09AM (#24857596)
It’s also bizarre to shut down a startup with $1.7B in funding after only six months. So I will say that statement is very much on brand.