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Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by whimsicalism on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:31PM (#24796454)
Did the Panama Papers expose a crime? Who decides whether a crime has occurred? I would say that Snowden exposed a crime (perjury) by James Clapper. Manning (IMO) exposed war crimes.

Similarly, I think that it was in the interest of the public to report when it was discovered that Trump only paid $750 in taxes (despite not committing a technical crime!) or that Hillary Clinton received some debate questions in advance (again, not a crime!).

This standard that Twitter is applying appears to have no clear line of enforcement, nor does the principle you've put forth.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by knodi123 on Thursday October 15, 2020 @11:21PM (#24797112)
> or that Hillary Clinton received some debate questions in advance (again, not a crime!).

Also, not actually true!

There were claims that she received debate questions weeks in advance, which are a complete and total fabrication by a probably-not-innocent prank website.

There were separate claims that she received debate questions shortly before the town hall debate. And there was an effort to do so from someone outside of her campaign - but the questions that were provided were not the ones asked, so.... It's false to say she received some debate questions in advance.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-received-debate-qu...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/31/ha...

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by ralfd on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:06AM (#24797676)
> but the questions that were provided were not the ones asked

Oh come on, the 2016 election is in the past, you don't have to spin it. The questions asked were similar enough and it can't be denied that Clinton got the questions in advance, but not Sanders.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donna-brazile-wikilea...

> An email later obtained by POLITICO showed that the text of the question Brazile sent to the Clinton campaign was identical to a proposed question Martin had offered CNN. (A similar, though not identical question, was ultimately posed to Clinton at the town hall).

> In the newest email, sent one day before the March 6 Democratic primary debate in Flint, Michigan, Brazile tells senior campaign staff that “One of the questions directed to HRC tomorrow is from a woman with a rash. Her family has lead poison and she will ask what, if anything, will Hillary do as president to help the ppl of Flint.”

> The next night, a woman named Lee-Anne Walters asked both candidates a very similar question.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by godelski on Friday October 16, 2020 @03:34AM (#24798506)
> The questions asked were similar enough

Honestly I'm confused why people are so hot and bothered about the questions asked. Are any of you seriously surprised by the questions asked? Of course the candidates prepared to answer these questions. If they weren't prepared their prep team should be fired for being woefully incompetent. Seriously, all the questions are about the most popular topics. I honestly would have been shocked if Flint wasn't brought up considering it being part of the national conversation.

Should she have gotten them? No. Is it cheating? Yes. Is it a big fucking deal to detract from actual issues? No. It is just another example of minor cheating that they are doing constantly. But this is like cheating on a test where the teacher pulls questions from the homework and changes a few numbers and you already memorized how to do all the homework problems.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by deathhand on Friday October 16, 2020 @06:13AM (#24799331)
Believe or not we need to trust the integrity of our elected officials. That's the only way government works.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by godelski on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:04AM (#24801498)
I'm not sure why you think I disagree with you. What I said is focus on the bigger lies because all the little ones pull away from a continued conversation.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by gootdude on Friday October 16, 2020 @10:25AM (#24801083)
Really hard to discuss the integrity of our elected officials given the current President's penchant to lie like a marketer.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by whimsicalism on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:55PM (#24802648)
It is important to discuss, because at the margin having more integrity will get more turnout and help boot out the current President.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by MR4D on Saturday October 17, 2020 @07:20AM (#24809189)
The Constitution of the United States was explicitly designed to create a government where people do not have to trust their elected officials, and still have a functioning government.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by sumedh on Saturday October 17, 2020 @09:41AM (#24809899)
> Is it a big fucking deal to detract from actual issues? No.

I think its a big deal when candidate keeps on cheating or lying. It establishes a pattern of dishonest behaviour which the other candidate can easily make a soundbite by calling her crooked.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by whimsicalism on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:37PM (#24802472)
What some people claimed seems entirely irrelevant to the factuality of whether Hillary Clinton received some debate questions in advance of the debate. On that, the evidence seems pretty cut-and-dry. From your article:

> In an email released Monday morning by WikiLeaks, Brazile provides details to top Clinton aides about what Clinton would be asked at a CNN debate March 6 in Flint, Mich., by a woman whose family had lead poisoning.

> “One of the questions directed to HRC tomorrow is from a woman with a rash,” Brazile writes in the subject line of an email to Jennifer Palmieri and John Podesta. In the body of the email, she adds: “Her family has lead poison and she will ask what, if anything, will Hillary do as president to help the ppl of Flint.”

I hate Trump. But acting as if people are so stupid that you can just deny that this even happened? You're only hurting Democrats at the ballot box.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by knodi123 on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:11PM (#24805896)
What I said was "there was an effort to do so from someone outside of her campaign - but the questions that were provided were not the ones asked, so.... It's false to say she received some debate questions in advance."

Was there dishonesty from the DNC? Yes! But it's important to say what happened. Someone did a bad job of trying to supply her with a couple of questions. Instead the only thing they managed to provide her was a hint about two of the subjects that would be discussed. So to the point I responded to - Did she "receive some debate questions ahead of time" - nope! She didn't! Just some things that were close.

Did that give her an unfair advantage? Maybe! But I doubt it - if Bernie's campaign didn't expect a question about the Flint water issue, then they're idiots. And I don't think they're idiots. The help offered to Hillary was inaccurate and of dubious worth.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by whimsicalism on Friday October 16, 2020 @09:33PM (#24806767)
If you attempt to commit fraud, but are really shitty at it and bumble the attempt - I don't think that that makes it any more morally benign.

The emails [0] show pretty clear strategizing with Clinton campaign staff over preparing answers to the exact questions being proposed at the CNN town hall. That the CNN town hall ultimately chose to go with similar questions worded slightly differently does not in some way absolve the Clinton campaign.

[0]: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/5205

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by listenallyall on Saturday October 17, 2020 @07:55AM (#24809330)
> The help offered to Hillary was inaccurate and of dubious worth.

If you buy a gun and then rob a bank with it -- except the bank teller laughs at you because there's water dripping from your "gun" -- it doesn't diminish the fact that your intent was to rob a bank while yielding a deadly weapon. Just because you're ineffective and can't tell a water pistol from a Glock doesn't mean the intent doesn't, or shouldn't, count.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by slg on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:46PM (#24796552)
>Did the Panama Papers expose a crime?

Yes, here is the first google result.[1]

>Who decides whether a crime has occurred?

This is complicated and why there is a preference for whistleblowing to occur through official channels rather than through journalists. However sometimes there is a level of corruption that can't be dealt with any other way besides going public with it. In those instances, it is up to the whistleblower and journalists initially before eventually the court decides. Snowden was good in this regarding by trying to limit what was leaked. Manning did a poor job here.

>I would say that Snowden exposed a crime (perjury) by James Clapper. Manning (IMO) exposed war crimes.

No disagreement here. Snowden and Manning fit a clear definition of whistleblowers. Assange is the one who is not on the same moral footing as those two.

>Similarly, I think that it was in the interest of the public to report when it was discovered that Trump only paid $750 in taxes (despite not committing a technical crime!) or that Hillary Clinton received some debate questions in advance (again, not a crime!).

Trump's taxes likely did reveal numerous potential crimes. He reported different numbers to the government and lenders which would likely indicate he committed fraud.[2] He both employed his daughter and paid her as an external consultant which isn't allowed[3]. He regularly claimed things as business expenses in questionable ways.[4] I'm sure there are many others too, those were just the first three I remembered.

[1] - https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/first-us-t...

[2] - https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-never-b...

[3] - https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/28/politics/ivanka-trump-donald-...

[4] - https://theintercept.com/2020/09/28/donald-trump-taxes/

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by whimsicalism on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:50PM (#24802595)
> Yes, here is the first google result.[1]

So you would have supported Twitter blocking all mentions of the Panama papers until this conviction last month? Or would Twitter judge ahead of time that a crime has occurred and thus permit the hacked materials to be released?

> In those instances, it is up to the whistleblower and journalists initially before eventually the court decides.

But only journalists of a certain political bent? You seem to be advocating adding Twitter, FB, and other for-profit corporations into the conversation here.

> Assange is the one who is not on the same moral footing as those two.

Assange was the journalist who published Manning's releases. This seems incoherent to me.

> Trump's taxes likely did reveal numerous potential crimes.

The NYPost article revealed the crime of crack possession. It was not so long ago that the FBI did a sting operation to get the same sort of footage they used to convict my city's (DC) mayor. And the FBI clearly thought they had some information about a crime, which is presumably why they were subpoenaed.

Obviously, that's a stupid argument - but that's the point. You are just going to set up arbitrary thresholds for what is a crime and what isn't post-facto to justify blocking what you don't want and allowing what you want.