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Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:43PM (#24792228)
I'll play the devils advocate: moderating any platform is a challenging endeavor, mostly because of malicious users. Having all the rules broken down in detail allows bad actors to either get close to the line but not cross it, or abuse the system while technically not breaking any rules. As such, having very broad rules (read TOS) helps. Additionally, not having to explain exactly what was violated means that people can't probe the system to figure out the rules in detail as well as the limits of acceptable behavior.

The problem with such opaque systems is that it can go terribly wrong, but the answer is to not centralize anything important; always keep a backup. After all, the cloud is someone else's computer.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by vxNsr on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:18PM (#24792650)
If you want to become a platform that everyone in the world uses and reap those billions in profits that come with that, maybe... just maybe you should be responsible for sane, humane moderation as well. Don't build something that's manageable and then complain when people ask you to manage it.

I've said this before here, I'm pretty libertarian, and very much in favor of small gov, but at this point its become clear that anyone who strives to become an internet platform where market dominance equals monopoly or duopoly, should be held to strict regulatory standards, re: free speech, appeals, etc. similar to what a gov entity is held to.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:28PM (#24792751)
> I've said this before here, I'm pretty libertarian, and very much in favor of small gov, but at this point its become clear that anyone who strives to become an internet platform where market dominance equals monopoly or duopoly, should be held to strict regulatory standards, re: free speech, appeals, etc. similar to what a gov entity is held to.

About that - the government can be pretty opaque. I too would like some strict regulatory standards to apply to the CBP.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by swiley on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:45PM (#24792248)
Maybe it's better not have platforms that everyone on the planet have to use in order to access content/software.
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:05PM (#24792490)
Perhaps - but it has always been prudent to keep redundant copies of anything important since before computing platforms existed. Frequently backup your data and test the backups.
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by dvfjsdhgfv on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:40PM (#24792883)
The bigger problem here is not really about the content, but the means. If all e-mail communication goes through Gmail (and maybe a bit via Outlook and some remnants of Yahoo), at some point you may lose your ability to communicate with the rest of the population unless you subscribe to one of these services. This is already happening to some degree but is definitely getting worse.
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by ochoseis on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:12PM (#24792565)
What seems novel here is that the author _actually works_ at Google and still can’t help despite being an insider. Although, not sure if that says more about Google or more about the banned account.
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by cnst on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:45PM (#24792934)
TBH, this is the way it should be.

Getting your account unbanned shouldn't require having an insider.

---

There should be a clear reason for why an account is banned. When you're accused of a crime in a society, we don't just tell you to read abstract law. We tell you exactly what you've been accused of, such that you can defend yourself appropriately. There is this basic principle in English law that states:

- It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

What's been happening with many of these companies is that many guilty actually do escape, whilst many innocent actually still do suffer.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by supernova87a on Thursday October 15, 2020 @04:32PM (#24793520)
If Google insiders had special access, wouldn't that be similar to exactly how the recent Twitter vulnerability was exploited?

Although, in this case, I guess the guy was just looking for any qualitative explanation for how to fix the situation, not specifically asking for exceptions to policies to be made.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by cmrdporcupine on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:31PM (#24792796)
As a Google employee, I don't expect to have any special privileged access to Google customer support and I think if we did have it, wouldn't you think that would be unjust?

Disclaimer: not saying anything about the qualities of said services.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by justinclift on Thursday October 15, 2020 @10:55PM (#24796978)
> ... wouldn't you think that would be unjust?

Not at all.

Being able to more efficiently access other systems and employees at your company than outsiders isn't "unjust" in any way.

Not being able to do so, seems very broken and weird. :(

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by pantalaimon on Thursday October 15, 2020 @05:09PM (#24793978)
Does Google have customer support at all?
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by luckylion on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:15PM (#24792616)
> moderating any platform is a challenging endeavor, mostly because of malicious users. Having all the rules broken down in detail allows bad actors to either get close to the line but not cross it, or abuse the system while technically not breaking any rules.

Couldn't that same argument be used to support secret laws and secret courts enforcing those secret laws? After all, we're definitely seeing the problem of people going as close as possible to the line without overstepping.

I think those laws would help tremendously, but mostly by forcing everyone to be overly cautious not to break them, creating strong chilling effects. They'd stifle freedom, and so does Google's secret law system.

To minimize fallout, I think it's more useful to split up Google along services (Search, Youtube, Gmail, Office/Suite etc). You could search for double plus ungood things on Google Search then without running the risk to loose access to your emails.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:22PM (#24792687)
> I think those laws would help tremendously, but mostly by forcing everyone to be overly cautious not to break them, creating strong chilling effects. They'd stifle freedom, and so does Google's secret law system.

No need to have new secret laws - there are already enough obscure laws that I guarantee you have broken many of them whose statute hasn't expired. That is why you shouldn't speak to cops without a lawyer.

That said - it's not a Google problem as it's the norm. Most services, banks or even potential employers will tell you the reason for declining service - not because they want a chilling effect, but because there are so many ways it can get wrong (for them).

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by paulcarroty on Thursday October 15, 2020 @04:15PM (#24793292)
I'll be honest here: move moderation to AI/robots and sent automatic messages "go out here! we're so sorry.." in loop is completely bullshit and main reason to avoid Google.

And I'm definitely not "so sorry" about.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by numpad0 on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:40PM (#24792881)
That’s just unfair business practice that works against ill educated. Way to keep it to nice people, but nice in the context ultimately means established.
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by amelius on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:37PM (#24792846)
Running a government is also a challenging endeavor. Does that mean that the laws should be left obscure?
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by reaperducer on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:54PM (#24792347)
I'll play the devils advocate

Why?

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:59PM (#24792425)
Because it is necessary to develop a "theory of mind" to figure out why some entities behave the way they do. You'll encounter fewer surprises that way :)

edit: also, I have the battle scars from moderated a few niche online forums/properties that were mildly popular. People who abuse services are surprisingly tenacious and creative. If there is the potential to make money - even a little - you get abusers who are tenacious, creative and sophisticated

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by relaxing on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:26PM (#24792723)
I don’t think anyone suggested moderating shouldn’t happen or that it isn’t hard. This situation isn’t the result of unpaid mods of a web forum - Google has incredibly vast resources at its disposal.

Unfortunately the devil’s advocate has brought us no closer to an understanding of the problems posed by OP: how to appeal an unknown violation, how to regain access to ones data, etc.

Re:Google disabled my husband's account by sangnoir on Thursday October 15, 2020 @04:00PM (#24793109)
My point was not that I was overwhelmed or under-resourced: it's just that trolls/assholes/rule breakers force you to regress to "I know it when I see it" because they can break the spirit of the granular rules without breaking the letter. The solution is to make the "spirit" the rules (i.e. be super-broad about what constitutes abuse)
Re:Google disabled my husband's account by reificator on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:58PM (#24792404)
Because considering and understanding other perspectives is important for actually getting things done?