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Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by lozaning on Monday October 12, 2020 @11:55AM (#24755740)
>The fact that the manufacturer can remote into their cars, does not automatically mean that the car is vulnerable to remote hacking

If your car can connect to the internet it's vulnerable to hacking via the internet. My car, which is incapable of connecting to the internet suffers no such potential for abuse.

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by umvi on Monday October 12, 2020 @01:25PM (#24756860)
Theoretically if the systems are properly decoupled and airgapped than the hacking surface area should be quite low. You might be able to hijack the music coming through the speakers, but you should never be able to control the brakes over the internet.

In real life is that what actually happens? Sadly, no. Car companies seem to make a lot of bone-headed systems engineering design decisions (such as having a computer network path connecting infotainment to critical safety systems)

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by Faark on Monday October 12, 2020 @05:44PM (#24759780)
> Theoretically if the systems are properly decoupled and airgapped than the hacking surface area should be quite low.

Since an over the air update is supposed to improve your 0 to 60 times, pretty much all systems must allow to be updated and thus hardly can be airgapped.

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by R0b0t1 on Monday October 12, 2020 @03:38PM (#24758538)
How small the surface is is irrelevant, an internet connected car is more of a risk. I don't want all these features in a car.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by TheCoelacanth on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:44AM (#24776425)
Something that is connected to the Internet is, by definition, not airgapped.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by castratikron on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @01:30AM (#24762568)
It's probably on a VPN or a private APN and not the internet.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by bdamm on Monday October 12, 2020 @12:11PM (#24755945)
Just because the car has external connectivity doesn't mean the car has abusable vulnerabilities. Of course, some vendors are going to be better than others when it comes to hardening, pen-testing, and good operational security.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by mysterydip on Monday October 12, 2020 @12:16PM (#24756007)
Even if the only allowable connection is the legitimate manufacturer's, the manufacturer itself could be compromised one day (if not already), allowing malicious commands to be sent on the trusted downlink. Or an "oops I found a bug in the code you just pushed to 100,000 cars" could happen accodentally.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by Retric on Monday October 12, 2020 @12:40PM (#24756296)
It’s unlikely but possible for an over the airway connection to actually be inherently secure. One example is an isolated system that could monitor say engine temperatures and oil pressure and nothing else.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by compiler-guy on Monday October 12, 2020 @01:12PM (#24756696)
That sort of system is totally _possible_, but not the way any modern automotive connectivity works.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by outworlder on Monday October 12, 2020 @02:24PM (#24757656)
Modern automotive connectivity is via the CAN bus. It is not a given that the system that's internet connected is even able to talk to the CAN bus.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by novok on Monday October 12, 2020 @03:23PM (#24758371)
Most are. GM OnStar systems & Tesla I know for sure are designed in a way that a malicious hack of HQ computers + research into car firmware could lead to a push that would kill potentially millions of people simultaneously. If I really dived into the others, I wouldn't be surprised if ford, VW, toyota and others had similar system design issues.

We are just lucky we live in a world where even 'hackers' don't go that low. I hope future regulation will mandate remote access airgaps. I don't think it's a big price to pay for non-entertainment / GPS software updates to require a physical connection

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by tatersolid on Monday October 12, 2020 @10:08PM (#24761578)
> We are just lucky we live in a world where even 'hackers' don't go that low.

Unfortunately they do go that low. There have been multiple murders committed by ransomware gangs attacking European and US hospitals in recent months. Example: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/09/patie...

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by novok on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @04:26AM (#24763468)
That's more spray and pray damage then a specific hack on hospitals.
Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by tatersolid on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:13AM (#24773037)
Modern ransomware attacks do recon and exfiltration for weeks or months before pulling the encryption trigger.

The attackers knew it was a hospital network and clearly didn’t care that people would die.

Re:Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile recept... by Dylan16807 on Monday October 12, 2020 @03:18PM (#24758309)
How's it going to unlock the car if it's not talking to the important parts?

Sure someone could make a dedicated secure unlock wire or something, but they don't.