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Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by asperous on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:06PM (#24740290)
Even if you are totally self funded you still are accountable to your customers. For software companies this might not be so bad, but many small business owners will tell you they make extremely demanding bosses
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by abraae on Saturday October 10, 2020 @04:03PM (#24741468)
> Even if you are totally self funded you still are accountable to your customers

2 main differences:

1) your customer's requirements are pure (usually) - "please add a frammel button so I can manage my widgets better". Your boss's requirements are less so - "please satisfy corporate by attending this compliance training".

2) you can fire any customers who you don't like. Not so your boss.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by anon9001 on Saturday October 10, 2020 @06:07PM (#24742216)
> 2) you can fire any customers who you don't like. Not so your boss.

I know what you mean, but I think there's an alternate way to look at this.

Every time I've moved jobs, I really look at it as firing my boss. The process is pretty much the same as firing someone:

* First, I voiced my concerns and gave my boss a chance to improve.

* When he wasn't improving, I began searching the job market to find his replacement (my future boss).

* After a few interviews, I found a replacement that was a really good fit for the role of "my boss".

* I let my old boss know that his performance had not improved enough, and I was forced to let him go, but I wished him all the best in his future endeavors.

* I gave my new boss a start date, and so far everything is going great.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by MrRiddle on Saturday October 10, 2020 @07:09PM (#24742573)
Except you don’t get to keep the job. Firing your boss means changing your job, firing your customer does not.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by dvtrn on Saturday October 10, 2020 @07:22PM (#24742640)
Adding to that, unless they’re your only customer, firing one customer means you’ve only lost a % of potential future income. Firing your boss, and quitting your job altogether-unless you’re moonlighting, getting passive income elsewhere or accepted an offer before quitting-most commonly means losing 100% of future earnings until signing onto the next job.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by roenxi on Saturday October 10, 2020 @05:53PM (#24742141)
> "please satisfy corporate by attending this compliance training".

Compliance training is about legal requirement. A little extrapolation suggests it is going to be things that your bosses are only asking you to consider because they are legally mandated. If they were going to be considerations anyway, why mandate them?

A lot of stupid things businesses do are to satisfy legal requirements that the business thinks is stupid. That one isn't the boss, it is the government.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by vanusa on Saturday October 10, 2020 @07:30PM (#24742695)
Compliance training is about legal requirement.

That's the thing -- oftentimes your Boss thinks that X is a "legal requirement". When really it's "so-and-so is bugging me to cram this down your throats saying something about 'legal' and I'm too busy to even bother googling to find out whether it's really so. Plus even if I did some basic research I might have to actually think about it for a minute or two - and you know how much I hate that. So to save myself time, I think I'll just cram it down your throats."

My favorite X in this category: drug testing. (Contrary to popular belief, it's almost never an actual legal requirement - even if your company is getting state or federal funds.)

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by geofft on Saturday October 10, 2020 @08:28PM (#24742952)
This is technically true, but as a solo founder, you're even less equipped than a large company with a legal and compliance team to determine what's actually a legal requirement and what's not - and what legal requirements are imposed by industry groups like PCI instead of the government but are no less binding in practice if you want to run a certain sort of business, and what sorts of things are in the grey area of "the law only speaks about this broadly, but nobody chooses a specific implementation other than X in practice, so in theory you could innovate but you're on your own," and what sorts of things aren't legal requirements on their own but do save you if you get into legal trouble for other reasons, and so forth.

Remember that solo founders are widely encouraged to incorporate in Delaware just because it's the least legal risk. One state! Out of fifty, and several non-state entities! There's no legal requirement, and you can absolutely incorporate in your home state or many other places, but the advice is that if you want to focus on what your business does best, don't spend time thinking about any states' corporate law other than Delaware's, which is well-explored. If that's the bar, basically all other forms of compliance are well above it.

I get that good hackers have an instinct to ask "Why?" or "Really?" at every step and to understand the whole system, and I have it too, but one thing I've learned with experience is you need to train yourself to put a stopping point on "Why?" if you want to get anything done at your current level of descent. You absolutely can go arbitrarily deep, nobody is goin to stop you, and there are all sorts of fences that have no reason for existing, but you have a limited amount of time to do whatever work you want to do and show results. Do you want to build the next great social network, or the next great form of corporate structure? You can absolutely do either - you can't do both.

(One caveat: there are a few things that are legal requirements or near enough thereto that only apply when you have more than a few employees. If you're a solo founder, you presumably can't create a hostile work environment for yourself, for instance. However, if you're a solo founder pursuing B2B deals and having meetings with companies, it might be worth being aware of what sorts of things your target companies consider hostile work environments and would cause them to not invite you back for the sake of their legal risk - and that's even more about the standard corporate view of the law than the law itself. So, you may not be able to get away ignoring these conventions even as a solo founder, after all.)

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by edoceo on Saturday October 10, 2020 @05:47PM (#24742111)
I have this for my small business. About 450 small "bosses" (clients). Because we don't answer to investors or board or anything we have what I call "alignment" with our clients.

Despite 400+ opinions, the pull on the team is one way: client needs.

My previous Companies has outside money, board, etc. That's three directions of pull.

We've saved a lot of time that way on investor management but our growth was limited by cash-on-hand.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by Rebelgecko on Saturday October 10, 2020 @08:23PM (#24742934)
Have you ever needed to fire a client? Or been in a situation where you have to juggle client needs that were non-compatible?
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by edoceo on Sunday October 11, 2020 @02:12AM (#24744080)
Fire client: less than 2%. But looks, losing only 2% to focus on the other 98. Well, you'll grow back.

Not-Compatoble request is a bit harder. But, with like 10+ prior years in consultant I'm generally able to direct thing to a multiple compatible solution.

Lots of research and customer development play for that.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by sytse on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:15PM (#24740346)
And you are accountable to your employees. Take the board I have for example. It is a relief to know that if I’m not longer the right person they will replace me. If you are bootstrapped with 1000+ employees a board might be something you want even if you don’t need to do it from an ownership perspective.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by sullyj3 on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:15PM (#24740354)
I mean, at a certain point you're asking for ultimate power over everything and instead of attempting to become autonomous you find yourself attempting to become a supervillain
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by asddubs on Saturday October 10, 2020 @02:41PM (#24740929)
the zuckerberg route
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by swagasaurus-rex on Saturday October 10, 2020 @06:38PM (#24742404)
now that they're a publicly traded company, there's no way Zuckerberg could ever downsize Facebook into an honest company without the shareholders throwing a fit or suing the company.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by skrebbel on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:51PM (#24740593)
Ah! That's an angle I hadn't considered yet.

Was there a concrete point at which you and your co-founder agreed to accept a minority stake and therefore give up absolute control? Was it a hard call to make or, already then, a relief because of the employee accountability?

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by jlokier on Saturday October 10, 2020 @02:45PM (#24740952)
Having a board of directors over you doesn't always mean dropping to a minority ownership stake, or even giving up absolute control.

The board of directors is legally responsible for running the company, in practice through major company decisions and scrutiny, so you can take some relief from that if you're a CxO doing what you think best "day to day" but not entirely sure you really know by yourself. Your board will get the legal blame if it goes seriously wrong and you've kept them sufficiently informed and involved in key decisions.

But you can still have a majority ownership stake while appointing a board. In doing so, you keep ultimate control (as shareholders) but you won't often exercise it.

Having ultimate control might change the social dynamics, but shareholders are not responsible for the company, the board of directors is and they should know it. Shareholders have the power to pass resolutions which effectively override directors, but most of the time they don't. Even if they do, it's up to the directors to figure out how to do what the shareholders want in a responsible and defensible way.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by iainctduncan on Saturday October 10, 2020 @03:11PM (#24741130)
That is a totally different situation. Your customers can't just do whatever they want to you whenever they want. A board coalition with more than 50% of the shares can. They can say anytime they want, "we want out, your job is now to sell the company at the least possible loss". I have had this happen at a place where I worked.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by afarrell on Saturday October 10, 2020 @03:48PM (#24741373)
It can if you only have one customer. The issue is monopsony.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by iainctduncan on Saturday October 10, 2020 @07:06PM (#24742563)
I'm replying to a comment that specifically said "customers" in plural. If you are in a situation with one customer, then really, you're not even talking about a company-and-customers relationship anymore, that's more like a consulting or contracting relationship and is a whole different ball of wax.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by fizixer on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:38PM (#24740489)
I'm sorry customers are no boss.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by deckard1 on Saturday October 10, 2020 @03:24PM (#24741210)
yeah, this has always been the dumbest of takes. When I have an issue at Amazon, is Bezos picking up the phone? Hell no. Even at places where the "customer is always right", all that means is the customer is the boss of the hourly wage slave. The CEO doesn't give a damn. And this results in so much ugly behavior here in America, where customers think they can throw drinks at fast food workers and have an adult tantrum.

Anyone comparing a customer to a boss has had the luxury of never having a terrible boss.

Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by internet_user on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:44PM (#24740542)
customers are much easier to fire than a boss.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by internet_user on Saturday October 10, 2020 @01:44PM (#24740544)
you can fire SaaS customers. happens all the time.
Re:You weren't meant to have a boss (2008) by maest on Saturday October 10, 2020 @02:58PM (#24741035)
> Even if you are totally self funded you still are accountable to your customers.

Rentiers are an exception.