Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by shajznnckfke on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:20PM (#24725746)

The Xbox requires that you have a Microsoft account, right? This seems like an inconvenience but I have a hard time understanding why it’s worth Congress’s time. Isn’t the world full of products that have to be registered by making an account in some system or another?

I guess I could understand if somebody didn’t have internet access and wants to use Oculus, but they wouldn’t be able to download any games either even if no account was required. The complaint seems like more of an ideological thing against Facebook, but I’m attempting to take it at face value.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by p1necone on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:17PM (#24726414)

The difference is that a Microsoft account is just a username and password used to log in to various Microsoft owned services - there's little baggage attached to it otherwise.

In comparison a Facebook account is directly tied to a specific Facebook (the company) owned service - Facebook (the application). You can't just create a Facebook login, you have to also create a (public by default) Facebook profile, probably use your real name and photo to avoid it being banned etc.

Facebook could fix this by letting you create a Facebook (the company) account which is just a username and password, and maybe an email for account recovery reasons. This account would then be used for logging in to all of Facebooks services, Facebook (the application) and Oculus included, while not actually requiring you to ever create a Facebook (the application) profile unless you wanted to.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by marcodave on Friday October 09, 2020 @05:03AM (#24728095)

if the shit hits the fan enough with this Congress report, I bet that's what they'll do. Probably they didn't do it yet for (a) keeping the status quo is more profitable and/or (b) it's going to be a huge architectural change

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by dorkinspace on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:40PM (#24725859)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe microsoft doesn't care if you have multiple accounts while facebook will ban "non real" accounts.

This is the part that makes it anticompetitive, I would imagine.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by sova on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:06PM (#24726009)

Na it's about deviation of flow of attention AFTER the product has already been acquired and UNNECESSARY to the core function of the product.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by polyomino on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:54PM (#24726271)

I think the core function of a product should be up to the people making it, not congress.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by sova on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:39PM (#24726551)

Not if your product is harassing people by phone or something annoyingly similar. The line blurs and moves often.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by polyomino on Friday October 09, 2020 @02:40AM (#24727434)

Yeah, fair. The congress should go after robocalling spammers.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by olemartinorg on Friday October 09, 2020 @06:24AM (#24728508)

The anticompetitive part refers to social VR. Today we have multiple social VR apps (Rec Room, Altspace, Bigscreen and more). While Facebook aims to be a big player in social VR they're not there yet; their Facebook Horizons app is still in closed beta.

Requiring a Facebook login to use the Quest puts the competition at an immediate disadvantage, as they'll have to use their own login or submit to Facebook login as well, often at the cost of cross-platform compatibility. Onboarding friction will always be less with the app where you already have an account.

Facebook told Bigscreen developers to join Facebook or "be crushed": https://twitter.com/DShankar/status/1295825809496629248

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by zamadatix on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:52PM (#24725932)

I'm not sure what about that has to do with competition.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by technofiend on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:14PM (#24726059)

Feed me, Seymour!

But seriously what a dark pattern and just like Little Shop of Horrors feeding the beast really doesn't benefit you. This is exactly why I never purchased an Oculus: because the price of entry for playing a VR game is too high.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by r3drock on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:33PM (#24725818)

In principle I would say you are right, but it is actually a far greater hassle to make (or keep) a facebook account than some generic account.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by millstone on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:06PM (#24726011)

Have you actually had problems making/keeping a Facebook account? I have several throwaways which continue to work fine.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by hansvm on Friday October 09, 2020 @12:19AM (#24726786)

I tried making one a year or two ago. When it asked for a phone number I gave a throwaway. Turns out they verify you have control of the number, so next I tried some VoIP digits. Facebook knows which blocks are owned by the larger VoIP companies and requested a _real_ phone number this time. So...I went out and bought a damned phone so that I'd have a phone number to make this bloody account. I verified that I could make and receive calls and started their registration flow again to be blocked by some other kind of BS (I think they thought the number was still in a VoIP block...guess that misfeature isn't perfect?). Anyway, it wasn't thaat important to me, so I gave up and haven't tried again since.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by protomyth on Friday October 09, 2020 @12:11AM (#24726740)

Try being an actual account with a Native American name. Facebook likes to randomly ban them accusing the owner of using a fake name. So, yeah, people around here sometimes have problems keeping an account.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by coding123 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:15PM (#24726401)

I have created accounts that got immediately locked the same day. I have also had accounts that got locked about 2 months in.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by shajznnckfke on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:19PM (#24726422)

I had an experience with Facebook locking my account once, and I came to suspect that they were doing it to punish me for logging in on a mobile browser to promote the app. The UX really seemed to be designed to be painful - interfaces where the buttons were just out of reach unless you scrolled a particular way, scary language implying it was unsafe to use the site that way. I felt like someone was getting a bonus based on how many people they could push off the browser into using the app.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by Polylactic_acid on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:48PM (#24726239)

I have had mine locked in the past. Obviously facebook has some system that is locking accounts because so many people have faced this issue

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by mlboss on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:35PM (#24725834)

Facebook is in the business of tracking user activities and then showing them ads to change their consumer behavior. I will not be surprised if facebook starts showing ads in the game.

Also VR is not only for games. It can be used for remote meetings, design, tourism etc. VR is a different way to work and consume content.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by tomc1985 on Friday October 09, 2020 @02:07AM (#24727291)

Agreed, we need to be railing against all of this unnecessary account bullshit. Hardware devices need to function as hardware, and not software-based extensions of corporate control.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by grumple on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:07PM (#24726020)

I own an Oculus Quest. I do not have a Facebook account, nor will I get one. For me, this will eventually deprive me of a product I bought and enjoy once they start enforcing it.

It’s an attempt to force people like me to use another product of theirs so they can extract value from me.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by cblconfederate on Friday October 09, 2020 @02:28AM (#24727381)

from an antitrust perspective, it's because facebook is using oculus to push its other product (facebook) and profit from the tracking information. It's similar to MS using windows to push an unrelated program (internet explorer). Creating an xbox account doesnt seem to affect the MS Office revenue or damage competition

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by taneq on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:55PM (#24725951)

Does the Xbox stop working if your Microsoft account gets banned?

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by dawnerd on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:01PM (#24725990)

Nope but your console might get banned from xbox live in certain cases (all consoles have similar).

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by ianmobbs on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:00PM (#24725979)

To an extent, yes https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxinsiders/comments/cj5b0a/what_h...

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by tenryuu on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:29PM (#24726133)

I skimmed this, but this goes over getting banned from Xbox Live, the network service, not a system that prevents you from using the console

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by taneq on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:15PM (#24726402)

It also covers your ability to use the console itself. It seems reasonably fair.

tl;dr The banned account can still play games in offline mode but can't re-download them since this is done through the XBox Live service. Other users of that XBox can do everything as normal including play and re-download games that were installed by the banned account.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by m463 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:55PM (#24726275)

I think xbox shouldn't require an account either.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by bena on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:56PM (#24725955)

Xbox Live is a Microsoft service that requires an account, you don't need an Xbox Live account to use the Xbox.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by shajznnckfke on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:22PM (#24726110)

I tried to look this up, and I found people saying you don’t need an Xbox Live account, but you still need a Microsoft account. Would appreciate any authoritative source that can answer the question.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by freeone3000 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:48PM (#24726238)

You need a Microsoft account to do anything with an Xbox One or Xbox Series, including playing offline games. If you don't have one, you get a series of prompts to create one. Doesn't need to be linked to anything, not even an email.

If this is being used to bypass a ban, the console will get banned.

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by vlovich123 on Friday October 09, 2020 @12:50AM (#24726932)

Isn't the accessory line pretty blurred with a device like the Apple Watch? The Apple Watch is about as powerful as computers from the 2000s (if not even more recently)[1] & has it's own line of accessories [2], & has its own cellular & WiFi connections. In theory Apple could make setup not require an iPhone if they wanted & even allow wireless displays. Smartwatches really are more companion devices that are tethered to phones to speed up the setup/input process & the phone acts like a smarter virtual display.

[1] Can't find the speed of the latest one but the S5 is a 64-bit dual-core 2.4 Ghz CPU (I think the S6 is 20% faster than that?) with 1 GB of RAM & 32GB of storage. That's a pretty hefty device & will eventually consume a lot of needs for a phone. [2] https://www.apple.com/shop/watch/watch-accessories

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by 2fast4you on Friday October 09, 2020 @01:39AM (#24727171)

I believe Apple is already heading in the direction of independent watches. The latest update lets you set up a new watch for family members that don’t have an iPhone. After the setup it will function independently. Right now it’s mostly meant for kids.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211768

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Re:Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Ques... by bena on Friday October 09, 2020 @11:43AM (#24731002)

Ah. This is my bad then. My last experience was with the 360. I did not know they changed it with the One.

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