News for hackers. Stuff that matters.

A comment on Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenza and pneumonia. Parent comment

Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by polytely on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:14AM (#24717702)
Well it probably depends on the amount of IC beds / ventilators / trained personnel available per location. I know that here in The Netherlands they narrowly avoided a triage situation where your condition decided if were going to get treated.

A second order effect that might not be obvious is that during the first wave a lot of non-emergency procedures were postponed, a lot of these non-emergency procedures can still be quite urgent and can have negative consequences for the people who had to wait.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by xiphias2 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:32AM (#24717798)
Maybe in Netherlands non-emergency treatments were postponed, but in Hungary even some emergency treatments were deprioritized by the government. I tell my parents every times I speak to them to be very careful to not get sick, as they can’t expect the same level of treatment that they had a year ago.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by Yetanfou on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:22AM (#24717745)
Att the start of the pandemic Sweden had the next-lowest number of ICU places per capita in Europe (Portugal had the lowest). The capacity was doubled, field hospitals were built... and not used since the hospitals could handle the inflow. This was partly due to some very controversial and in my opinion unethical guidelines which mandated morphing instead of oxygen for certain groups of elderly (i.e. involuntary euthanasia) but it is unknown if those policies had much effect on the park ICU occupation.

Apart from some bad mistakes in the beginning where the infection was allowed to spread in care facilities Sweden has weathered the epidemic (as in the local version of the pandemic) no worse than surrounding countries and certainly no worse than e.g. New York.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by cygx on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:47AM (#24717861)
no worse than surrounding countries

Deaths per 1k population:

                total       last month
    Sweden      0.59        0.0058
    Denmark     0.11        0.0053
    Finland     0.063       0.0016
    Norway      0.051       0.0020
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by goalieca on Thursday October 08, 2020 @07:52AM (#24718230)
I’m tired of seeing scoreboard style comparisons everywhere as some sort of gotcha. Any scientific analysis worth its salt will look into the values to start explaining the numbers and put it all into context.

For instance, can we explain where Sweden’s deaths occurred? Large care homes (100+ residents) that were ill prepared? Are they expected to have a large amount or average amount of excess deaths at the end of 2020? Why is it tracking average and why are some lockdown heavy countries tracking much higher (because lack of health care due to shutdowns?) What even represents a covid death or case?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by onecommentman on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:57PM (#24726288)
What makes presenting a list of numbers a “gotcha”? It’s a better starting point for discussion than a random unsupported assertion. I would interpret a complaint about introducing numbers and measurement as evidence that the complainant has a weak position that can’t stand objective scrutiny. Numbers aren’t everything, but they’re definitely a something...
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by Yetanfou on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:00PM (#24723900)
> For instance, can we explain where Sweden’s deaths occurred? Large care homes (100+ residents) that were ill prepared?

A large problem in Sweden is that many of the staff in care homes do not speak Swedish or don't speak/read it well. This has led to the instructions on how and when to use PPE not being followed or not being followed well which led to a large number of infections in care homes [1]. Since people in care homes tend to be part of high-risk groups for severe COVID-19 this had led to a large number of deaths which could have been prevented. I stated this in the original message ('Apart from some bad mistakes in the beginning where the infection was allowed to spread in care facilities').

[1] https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2020-07-10/svag-svenska-kan-ha-pa...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by gerikson on Thursday October 08, 2020 @08:01AM (#24718295)
> This was partly due to some very controversial and in my opinion unethical guidelines which mandated morphing instead of oxygen for certain groups of elderly (i.e. involuntary euthanasia)

This is an extremely serious accusation. I live in Sweden and have not seen any reference to this practice mentioned in media.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by juusto on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:22AM (#24718855)
I saw something related to it in two outlets, the BBC and YLE (finnish news).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-to...

https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11433976

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by gerikson on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:51AM (#24719581)
The intent was to give palliative care, not literally murder people . Although this source does sound the alarm that the line is thin.

In essence, palliative care for cancer does not translate into the same effect with COVID-19.

https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2020/06/15/palliativ-v...

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by Yetanfou on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:15PM (#24724025)
Seriously?

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/a/dO3ddB/en-pa...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/GGk664/de-nast-intill-av...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/4q9V1g/kritiken-mot-aldr...

https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2020/06/15/palliativ-v...

https://www.expressen.se/debatt/min-pappas-dod-i-covid-19-bl...

https://www.aftonbladet.se/ledare/a/Ln0r9Q/morfin-istallet-f...

https://www.exakt24.se/lakare-upprord-efter-lackt-journalant...

https://www.exakt24.se/lakare-forskrackt-dodshjalp-istallet-...

https://lakartidningen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/2020/05/geriatrik...

https://www.varldenidag.se/nyheter/lakare-kraver-syrgas-till...

https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/skriftli...

If you have not heard of this it is because you're following the wrong media, clear and simple. Even Aftonbladet published on this, there was an open letter in Läkartidningen (doctor's journal), Dagens Medicin wrote on it, the 'alternative' media were all over this, questions were asked in Riksdagen.

Why did you not know? Also, why did you not simply search around a bit to verify the statement before posting your reply?

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Deaths due to Covid-19 compared with deaths from influenz... by gerikson on Friday October 09, 2020 @04:24AM (#24727925)
Applying palliative care on the recommendation of Socialstyrelsen is not euthanasia.
[ Parent | on HN ]