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Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by staticassertion on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:23PM (#24711685)
I genuinely don't see how DNS-over-http/quic is leading to unblockable advertisements. Adblocking extensions, which have got to account for at least 99% of all adblocking, don't work on DNS at all afaik - they work on already resolved hostnames?
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by userbinator on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:39PM (#24711864)
HOSTS files are the simplest and can already remove quite a bit of cruft, but what's effectively tunneling DNS in its own VPN will bypass that.

Ad blocking extensions are really a "last defense" and can be slowly lobotomised as they are under browser vendors' control.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by stefan_ on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @04:37PM (#24712442)
You got it the wrong way around. Ad blocker extensions should be your first choice, this DNS blocking business is really for devices where that is not possible ("Smart" TV et al) and it's getting less effective by the day.
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by staticassertion on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @04:37PM (#24712446)
I assume DNS over Whatever will still respect the HOSTS file? I'd be really surprised to find otherwise, but would love to hear if that's the case! If you don't trust the browser you already have very little defense against ads, no? After all, the browser could always just resolve DNS itself.

HOSTS files may also be simplest (I totally disagree btw), but I can't imagine they're anywhere near the most common.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by userbinator on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @07:35PM (#24714085)
After all, the browser could always just resolve DNS itself.

That's exactly how DoH is being implemented, and it's why it has caused so much controversy.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by staticassertion on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:14PM (#24715319)
Pretty sure Chrome has been using its own DNS resolver for ages. I don't see the issue either way.
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by cookiengineer on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:30AM (#24716779)
> Pretty sure Chrome has been using its own DNS resolver for ages.

That is correct, the IPv6 probes are embedded in the Chromium source, and are removed by the Ungoogled Chromium and/or Inox patchset [1].

[1] https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium/tree/master/pa...

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by silon42 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @10:00AM (#24719140)
How do they handle "enterprise" proxies that ban direct internet access? I probably should setup that at home.
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by cookiengineer on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:08AM (#24719771)
Chrome itself always requests HTTP first, except for HSTS and their own pinned certificates list which is actually shipped within the source code.

That's also a major difference to Ungoogled Chromium, where UC will request "https://..." by default if you just enter the domain.

So in the case of Enterprise Proxies that have no locally force-installed cert to sniff on internet traffic will likely end up with HTTP-everywhere being used. But usually employers that encourage such bad practices also install their snakeoil MITM certificates locally.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by judge2020 on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:22PM (#24713491)
Chrome respects HOSTS file modifications itself[0], but I'd still recommend a pi-hole with DOH set up[1].

0: https://i.judge.sh/chief/Spoon/notepad_fwyvP8v6li.png

1: https://docs.pi-hole.net/guides/dns-over-https/

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by lukeramsden on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:31PM (#24711780)
Also, couldn't you just MITM the secure transport layer if you want to run a pihole?
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by frank2 on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:49PM (#24711974)
Have you tried browsing through mitmproxy? I have. It works, mostly, but is quite unpleasant.
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by lostmsu on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @05:40PM (#24713073)
The ad data (text, layout, media) can still be hidden on the client, but AFAIK with QUIC you can push it to the browser regardless if it actually was requested.
Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by slrz on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:01PM (#24723228)
No. QUIC is a transport protocol. Its purpose is roughly equivalent to TCP: provide a reliable byte stream transport over an unreliable datagram service (IP, though QUIC prepends a small UDP header mostly for compatibility with existing infrastructure).

You might be thinking of the HTTP server push functionality. That was introduced with HTTP/2 and has been deployed for years already over TCP transports (i.e. totally unrelated to QUIC).

Due to how advertising networks work, I'd be surprised if anyone used server push in the way you fear.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by rektide on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:13PM (#24713403)
this thread is filled with some very very aggressive high level instigators, spouting wild outlandish grimdark fantasies that they in no way justify or explain.

there is such a poisonous mentality that has taken root, that is popular. no one at the ietf shares these delusional fears, & it's not because the ietf is a bought out shadow puppet. it's because in reality http3 brings what http2 brought but technically better which brought what http1 brought but technically better.

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by martin_a on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:32PM (#24713591)
> spouting wild outlandish grimdark fantasies that they in no way justify or explain.

Did you have a good look at how the internet evolved in the last 15 years?

The IETF can invent HTTP/23 with DNS-over-whatever tomorrow, that doesn't change anything about the general state of the internet, which can best be summarized as a "burning pile of poop".

Do you really need any examples of how broken everything is? Do you really wonder that people have "grimdark fantasies" about what the "next cool web feature" will bring to us?

Re:Chrome is deploying HTTP/3 and IETF QUIC by tomComb on Thursday October 08, 2020 @07:31PM (#24725080)
But this isn't supposed to be about us not liking how the internet has evolved over the last 15 years.

It's about HTTP/3.