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Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by Florin_Andrei on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @12:31AM (#24705318)
What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is the extraordinary time it takes to approve or reject a greencard petition. In many cases it takes years - or even over a decade or more. That's insane. People bring their spouses here, they have kids who are born and go to school here, and all along the way their immigration status is uncertain. And meanwhile they are tied to whatever job they're in. It's insane.

Make that process faster. Give people a thumbs-up or thumbs-down like 10x faster. Months not years.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by rayiner on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:06AM (#24705472)
It’s insane because it’s a kludge. The US doesn’t really have a general purpose skilled immigration visa. The H1B visa is a temporary worker visa. There is this whole legal fiction where, when you get one, you have to announce non-immigrant intent with a wink, then once you’re here you say “I just now changed my mind and I want to stay here, can I get a green card.” It was never designed to be a payday to permanent residency, because the grand bargain of the law in the 1960s was that it wouldn’t increase immigration.

They should just repeal the law and design a real point-based permanent immigration system from scratch.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by _ph_ on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @05:50AM (#24706673)
There should be both. I am German, work for an American company. It shouldn't be difficult for me to move to an US office for some time and return back home. Of course, there is some likelyhood, that if I stayed at a place for more than a coumple of months, that I want to stay at that place long term, and this should be possible without too high bareers.

Here in Germany, you basically need a job offer which matches certain criteria, to be get a temporary residency. This can be prolonged as long as you stay employed in Germany. Similar rules exist for students. I have an Indian colleague who studied in Germany and now is working here. If you stay in the country for 5 years, it is pretty much just a formality to apply for unlimited residency and it is also reasonably straight-forward to even get German nationality, though this is less common.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by what_ever on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:36AM (#24706903)
H1-B is dual intent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent so there is no winking required. H1-B can last for 6 years (can be extended beyond that too but let's not get into that) and I think 6 years should be enough for one to get the GC.

But otherwise I agree with rest of your points.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:34PM (#24710616)
> H1-B is dual intent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent so there is no winking required.

There is. It doesn't matter in practice, because it's a legal fiction anyway, but here's the legal logic:

For all visa applicants, including H1B, there is a presumption that the person is an immigrant, and they cannot obtain non-immigrant visas until they convince the admission officer of their non-immigrant intent, see section 214(b) of INA. Crucially, you need to argue that you have no intention to abandon your foreign residence. Dual intent have nothing to do with it, this is true for all kinds of visas.

The immigration law says that, as a rule, applying for permanent residency in the US (a green card) constitutes evidence of your intent to abandon foreign residence. Where dual intent policy enters the picture is that the above does not apply to holders of dual intent visas. For them, applying for green card "does not constitute evidence" of their intent to abandon foreign residence: this is the exact language used in section 205b of Immigration Act of 1990, which is the legal basis for "dual intent" policy. Note that they do not say that the rule of abandoning foreign does not apply to dual-intent visa holders, only that applying for green card no longer constitutes evidence of their intent to abandon foreign residence.

Of course, none of it matters in practice, since it's all legal fiction, and in practice things works exactly as you believe they are. The point here is that the practice is based on the legal fiction, on the wink which requires immigration officials to pretend you do not intend to abandon your foreign residence, when everyone knows that this is exactly your goal.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foldr on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:13PM (#24711578)
>For all visa applicants, including H1B, there is a presumption that the person is an immigrant, and they cannot obtain non-immigrant visas until they convince the admission officer of their non-immigrant intent, see section 214(b) of INA. Crucially, you need to argue that you have no intention to abandon your foreign residence. Dual intent have nothing to do with it, this is true for all kinds of visas.

I don't think this is right. Section 214(b) indeed says that there is a presumption of immigrant intent, but for dual intent visas, such as the H1-B, it's not necessary to demonstrate that you don't have immigrant intent.

It also seems wrong that applying for a green card could ever not constitute evidence of immigrant intent. Do you have a citation for that?

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @05:03PM (#24712706)
> but for dual intent visas, such as the H1-B, it's not necessary to demonstrate that you don't have immigrant intent.

In practice, no, but that's not what "dual intent" legally means.

> It also seems wrong that applying for a green card could ever not constitute evidence of immigrant intent. Do you have a citation for that?

I did not say anything about "could not ever". I guess you could maybe interpret it this way, but if you actually followed the citation I gave, it would have been clear to you. What I meant was that the section 205b of Immigration Act of 1990, which is the legal basis of "dual intent" policy, explicitly amends section 214b of INA, to remove permanent residency application as acceptable evidence for the purpose of establishing immigration intent in context of section 214b.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foldr on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @05:38PM (#24713040)
I'm surprised how different this is from all the secondary information out there, but ok, you're right. Thanks for the info. (I said "could ever not", not "could not ever", but that's a moot point now.)
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:43PM (#24715510)
> I'm surprised how different this is from all the secondary information out there, but ok, you're right.

The secondary information is more useful in practice, because it represents the actual practice, not legal theory.

> I said "could ever not", not "could not ever", but that's a moot point now.

Ah, sorry, I misread, it's my bad.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by _jgdh on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @07:36AM (#24707203)
> I think 6 years should be enough

I’m guessing you don’t know very many Indians?

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by what_ever on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @02:04PM (#24710926)
I am one. I was talking more about the intentions behind it.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by whack on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:09AM (#24706769)
> The H1B visa is a temporary worker visa. There is this whole legal fiction where, when you get one, you have to announce non-immigrant intent with a wink, then once you’re here you say “I just now changed my mind and I want to stay here, can I get a green card.”

This is not true. Your description is accurate for the F1 student visa and TN work visa for Canadians - applicants for those visas are not allowed to have immigration intent. There is no such requirement for the H1B visa.

The poster you replied to is spot-on about the ridiculous wait times for green cards, and this delay has nothing to do with the H1B program itself. The government really needs to speed this up, so that immigrants and their families aren't living in fear of the next arbitrary Trump executive order.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foldr on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:27AM (#24706859)
H1-B is dual intent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent

(Not sure why doingmyting's comment saying the same thing is flagged. Virtually all of this user's comments seem to be flagged for some reason.)

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by colejohnson66 on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:21PM (#24710488)
They’re shadowbanned. Basically, every post is instantly killed and must be vouched for
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by gopi on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:47AM (#24706152)
For Engineers and Doctors from India, its takes more than 20 years to get Green card now. Its because of the arcane country quota system which assigns the same numerical quota for each country regardless of population, so India and Monaco get the same number of Green cards.

This is the remnant of the pre-1965 racist immigration country quota system which allowed only European whites into US.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by gamechangr on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:39AM (#24709334)
It has nothing to do with Racism. It's a quota.

If there were more people from New Zealand than India trying to apply, it would be harder for New Zealanders.

I've lived aboard and had residency in two other nations. The overall amount of people applying is outrageous. That's the real problem. 22,000,000 apply for 50,000 green cards.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/23/application...

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by nodemaker on Saturday October 10, 2020 @07:09AM (#24738118)
Btw this thing is based on country of birth and not country of citizenship. So basically even a person who is a European citizen and born in India cant get a green card before 20 years. Does that change your view?
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by wing-_-nuts on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @09:48AM (#24708139)
IIRC it's based on the number of immigrants from each country, not their race? As an example, a black person from Jamaica will have a much easier time than someone from India or China simply because there are fewer applicants from their small country.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foolinaround on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @10:40AM (#24708724)
there is no racist element to this; all countries have the same quotas.

India, China, Mexico, Philippines etc have backlogs because more people try to get in from these.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by techie128 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:30AM (#24716782)
FIFO is a fairer strategy.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by nullsense on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @08:42AM (#24707583)
Applicants from Oceania have 5% to 10% chance of winning the green card lottery in a given year. India is like 0.01 percent or something silly like that.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by quantgenius on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @08:43AM (#24707597)
What makes the immigration process in the US truly horrific is that it is racist. When the law was passed, the grand compromise was that it would not change the racial makeup of the country. So there are country specific (which is really just race specific with a wink and a nod) quotas for different countries. This means if you are from Sweden or Ireland, it's actually pretty easy to get a green card. There is even a green card lottery where you can apply in Ireland and get a green card and get one just because you entered because there aren't enough immigrants from there to balance things out. But if you are from India, it's going to take a decade or more.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foolinaround on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @10:43AM (#24708753)
Need citation for this.

when the basis is country-specific, and all countries are treated equally, it is purely supply/demand.

No one applies from Afghanistan, so it is easier to get a GC -- so is US biased towards Afghanistan?

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by mavelikara on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:15PM (#24713427)
> when the basis is country-specific,

Not adjusting for population when the brunt of this policy is not borne by a country but a person, suggests malicious intent. All countries are treated equal, but all immigrants are not.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by foolinaround on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:33PM (#24805261)
In theory, your argument sounds fair..

But in practice, is the US supposed to track down census numbers for the countries around the globe? So many countries, dont even have much of a process

and the main point is : the govt exists for the well-bein of its current citizens, not potential ones.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by R0b0t1 on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:40AM (#24709346)
The intent of the law wasn't racist, it was to prevent e.g. Indian (or some other large demographic) candidates from taking all of the available quota.
[dead]
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by dang on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:56PM (#24724352)
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by unishark on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:30AM (#24705567)
The time to process applications is indeed on the order of months.

https://egov.uscis.gov/processing-times/historic-pt

I believe the I-140 is for employment-based green cards.

The long wait times are due to annual quotas by country, not slow handling of paperwork.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by kolmogorov on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @04:40AM (#24706370)
it is not only due to quotas. there is BS request for evidence as well as random changes. for example, they added some disease to the process (I believe gonorrhea or syphilis) and then the exam I took entering the process wasn't sufficient at the time they actually looked at the exam. then it took them a long time to send that notice, then I got the new exam and the clock started again adding around 6 months from the "we need you to test for a disease that can be easily treated if you had it" to the approval. this is with highly paid lawyer support.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by JAlexoid on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @10:43AM (#24708752)
EB immigrant visas take ages and then there's the archaic process of some poor schmuck sitting in an USCIS office asking the questions and checking boxes on a form that you submitted a second time...
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by Florin_Andrei on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:19PM (#24710456)
From the p.o.v. of the person actually doing this, it takes years from the moment you apply to the moment you get the decision. This is what needs to change.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by ricktdotorg on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:04AM (#24705961)
why would your comment be downvoted? do downvoters think you are lying, or do they think its a good thing that green cards take so long?

what you say is correct.

as a green card holder myself i can attest to both my initial approval period (3.5 years) and also the renewal period (2 years) being onerously long, and at times, having a particularly deleterious effect on my life.

look, i can understand the initial approval taking a long time. they have a lot of stuff to check.

but i applied for the renewal a full 18 months before my GC's expiration date (because i knew they took a looong time) and i received the card a full 2 years after my renewal + bio was accepted in the system, i.e. six months after my GC expired.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @07:26AM (#24707153)
>why would your comment be downvoted? do downvoters think you are lying, or do they think its a good thing that green cards take so long?

The tall nail gets the hammer.

The inconvenient facts get the gray text.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by Razengan on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:58AM (#24707012)
> why would your comment be downvoted? do downvoters think you are lying, or do they think its a good thing that green cards take so long?

Or they don’t want other people to see what a comment is saying.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by refurb on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:37AM (#24706096)
I assume your talking about the visa dates? The actual process is pretty quick, a friend went from start to finish with a green card in 1.5 years.

The backlog is due to: 1) the limited number of immigrant visa defined in the law and 2) country based diversity quotas.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by JAlexoid on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @10:44AM (#24708774)
That's not "pretty quick". That's 18 months.

Pretty quick would be a month.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by refurb on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:27PM (#24711736)
I’d love to see if any country does it that quickly. It’s a pretty involved process in the US with appointments, medical exams, etc.
Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by JAlexoid on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @10:43PM (#24715114)
You mean... Like Singapore(7days), Lithuania(15days), Ireland(4 weeks), Netherlands and most other European countries - 90 day mandate.

My first work authorization in US was the simplest L1b internal company transfer. That took from mid October 2016 to issue of the visa on 21 Feb 2017. That's considerably longer for the simple document.

My blanket work authorization took 2.5 years... and 4 years for the LPR.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by refurb on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:11PM (#24715291)
Are you talking visa or permanent residency? Those are very different.

7 days for PR in Singapore? That's not the experience I've hear from friends. In fact, you're at the mercy of the gov't as it's entirely discretional for PR. You often have to apply multiple times if you don't have the "right" profile.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by JAlexoid on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @11:34PM (#24715443)
Just a work permit.

An equivalent of what you get in Singapore in 7 days is H1. H1B takes at absolute best - 6 months at 33% success rate.(If you miraculously get to file on March 31st and get to start October 1st.)

Permanent residency in US takes years. Even Diversity Lottery takes at least 18 months.

Re:Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa progr... by refurb on Thursday October 08, 2020 @12:35AM (#24715841)
Oh, my original reply was to the parent comment about permanent residency.