Why SF and Oakland have bad streets (2016)

Edit: remove that AMP bullshit

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Anothe...

This is a 2019 study. For Lafayette, the numbers read: the yearly cost of bad roads for the average motorist is $2.133. The pavement conditions of 53% of the roads are described as 'poor' and an additional 19% as 'mediocre'.

[1] https://tripnet.org/reports/louisiana-baton-rouge-transporta...

[2] https://tripnet.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/LA_Transporta...

> The pavement data in this report, which is for all arterial and collector roads and highways, is provided by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), based on data submitted annually by the Louisiana Department of Transportation & Development on the condition of major state and locally maintained roads and highways. Pavement data for Interstate highways and other principal arterials is collected for all system mileage, whereas pavement data for minor arterial and all collector roads and highways is based on sampling portions of roadways as prescribed by FHWA to insure the data collected is adequate to provide an accurate assessment of pavement conditions on these roads and highways.

So, yeah, potholes.

There's also research for plenty of other areas. Which isn't surprising since this organisation has been doing this for the past 50 years.

> Founded in 1971, TRIP is a private nonprofit organization that researches, evaluates and distributes economic and technical data on surface transportation issues. TRIP promotes transportation policies that help relieve traffic congestion and its impact on air quality, improve road and bridge conditions, make surface travel safer, and enhance economic productivity. TRIP is sponsored by insurance companies, equipment manufacturers, distributors, and suppliers, businesses involved in highway and transit engineering and construction, labor unions, and organizations concerned with an efficient and safe surface transportation network that promotes economic development and quality of life.

[3] https://tripnet.org/about-trip/

> Or all those people flooded out of their houses.

I'll pick the 2016 Louisiana flooding as an example. 146.000 homes damaged, 11.000 people ended taking refuge in shelters.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Louisiana_floods

> Pick one and let's break it down.

Okay. The story surrounding the 2016 floods is more complex then simply "needs more maintenance". You're looking at a flooding prone area where housing development ballooned in a few short years. So, what happened? As always, a combination of factors and the dilution of responsibility across many actors. This ranges from the population not having flooding insurance, over private contractors cutting corners, to building permits being issued based on outdated information and so on and so on.

Even so, engineering infrastructure at scale requires a different approach which can't be implemented on a municipal level. And even then, infrastructure isn't a silver bullet. You need a layered approach across administrative levels which requires cooperation, continuity and forward thinking strategies. Which is a tall order when economic and political circumstances aren't favourable.

[5] https://eu.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2016/09/23/did-flood...

The problem with this report is that they define "poor" as less than 25% usable life left. Which may be useful for budgeting but it doesn't paint an accurate picture of road quality. I've spent five minutes or so clicking around Google Street and I didn't come across a problematic road in Lafayette. Lots that had patches and are probably due for a total resurfacing but no potholes and nothing that I would have concerns driving down.

As noted in my other reply, even if we ignore the above objections the backlog is ~15% of the annual budget. It's not going to bankrupt the city.

>Okay. The story surrounding the 2016 floods is more complex then simply "needs more maintenance". You're looking at a flooding prone area where housing development ballooned in a few short years. So, what happened? As always, a combination of factors and the dilution of responsibility across many actors. This ranges from the population not having flooding insurance, over private contractors cutting corners, to building permits being issued based on outdated information and so on and so on.

You can't drop 30 inches of water anywhere without seeing localized flooding. It's not physically possible to move that much water no matter how good your infrastructure is.

All you have to do is look.

https://tripnet.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/LA_Transporta...

53% of Lafayette roads are in "poor condition". 19% more are "mediocre". 12% of bridges are structurally deficient.

https://thecurrentla.com/2020/if-we-want-to-fix-lafayettes-r...

https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/news/article_430cb640-e...

> Show me all the people poisoned there from heavy rains.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/09/01/arou...

> Or all those people flooded out of their houses.

Really? Have you ever seen Louisiana? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Louisiana_floods

> Pick one and let's break it down.

We just did.

>https://tripnet.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/LA_Transporta...

>53% of Lafayette roads are in "poor condition". 12% of Lafayette bridges are structurally deficient.

>https://thecurrentla.com/2020/if-we-want-to-fix-lafayettes-r...

Setting aside how you didn't show "potholes for miles", your own cite proves my point. The entire backlog of road projects is 90 million dollars which is ~15% of the annual budget. That's not a sum that is going to bankrupt the city.

>https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/09/01/arou...

A category 4 hurricane impacting water quality for some weeks is not evidence of poor infrastructure. I don't understand how you can make an argument like that in good faith.

>Really? Have you ever seen Louisiana? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Louisiana_floods

A storm that dropped 32 inches of water, three times as much as Katrina, causing flooding is not evidence of poor infrastructure. I don't understand how you can make an argument like that in good faith.

I'm not entirely sure what you think causing each motorist $888 in additional vehicle operating costs annually means, because that's exactly what it means. Potholes, cracks, and other physical deterioriation is part of their definition for poor condition.

Even going by your (I say extremely disingenuous) "usable lifespan" definition posted elsewhere, that is a gigantic bill about to come due that isn't part of the current repair backlog with no plan for paying it off.

> The entire backlog of road projects is 90 million dollars which is ~15% of the annual budget. That's not a sum that is going to bankrupt the city.

So we've established that the city spends 1/20 of what is necessary to clear the current road maintenance backlog, that the backlog, as backlogs do, continues to grow as time goes on, that clearing the current backlog would take a substantial percentage of the entire city budget, that there are other costs that aren't going anywhere that have to be paid regardless of how the city is arranged, that there's much _much_ more to infrastructure than just paving roads, and that in order to pay for needed maintenance they'd have to increase taxes beyond what people can afford to pay and/or cut other services.

And "Making matters worse, in the next four years of the parish’s five-year capital outlay budget, the budget for any kind of roadwork — fixing existing roads or building new ones — is, quite literally, $0."

> A category 4 hurricane impacting water quality for some weeks is not evidence of poor infrastructure.

It absolutely is when hurricanes are expected, common, and known to be getting both more frequent and worse in the region. It's quite well studied that development can make flooding better or worse. It's why after Harvey there were so many "Houston could and should have prevented this" articles.

But here, no hurricane needed: https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/news/article_701ae113-a...

"But each time it’s rained over the past year, the untreated sewage spills into the backyards and creates a mucky lake over the grass that blocks the pathway and causes a serious stench, Hornung said. The contaminated sludge spills into the coulee that drains into the Vermilion River.

Although the families alerted the city about the problem, its patchwork attempts to fix it — first, by extending the manhole covers above ground to relieve some of the pressure, and second, by bolting the manholes shut — only pushed the eruptions further down the sewer lines to neighboring properties, Hornung said."

"Some downtown Lafayette employees also were recently requesting relief after the same downpours that caused the sewage overflows near Girard Park caused some downtown storm water drains — which flow into different pipelines than those that carry sewage beneath the city — to overflow above the sidewalks and into their businesses near the corner of Jefferson and Convent streets."

And here, no hurricane needed: https://www.pnas.org/content/115/9/2078

"Here, we show that health-based drinking water quality violations are widespread, with 9–45 million people possibly affected during each of the past 34 years."

"in a given year, about 7–8% of [community water systems] report at least one health-based violation."

"In 2015, 9% of CWSs in our study sample violated health-based water quality standards, affecting nearly 21 million people. During each of the past 34 y, 9–45 million people were affected, representing 4–28% of US population."