News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by wil421 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @08:34AM (#24577977)
> Even my blog has never been so systematically subject to shadowbanning from Twitter and Facebook as now. Normally about 50% of my blog readers arrive from Twitter and 40% from Facebook. During the trial it has been 3% from Twitter and 9% from Facebook. That is a fall from 90% to 12%. In the February hearings Facebook and Twitter were between them sending me over 200,000 readers a day. Now they are between them sending me 3,000 readers a day. To be plain that is very much less than my normal daily traffic from them just in ordinary times. It is the insidious nature of this censorship that is especially sinister – people believe they have successfully shared my articles on Twitter and Facebook, while those corporations hide from them that in fact it went into nobody’s timeline. My own family have not been getting their notifications of my posts on either platform.

The last sentence is what strikes me the most. Maybe he was being paranoid but if your own family is telling you they are not getting a notification then something is wrong.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by zaarn on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:40AM (#24578508)
FB is known to throttle successful content in order to force blog owners to buy adverts instead of relying on organic growth.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by echelon on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:09AM (#24578742)
That's sick. Why do we tolerate this nonsense?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Cthulhu_ on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:16AM (#24578809)
We don't, we just don't have any power to stop it, other than shrugging and moving away from FB ourselves, which a lot of people have done already.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by dylan604 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:44AM (#24579071)
"We don't..." I turn to look at the 50 people that don't while the billions of other FB users have no idea about it. This is why you have no power to stop it.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by rStar on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:10PM (#24580100)
don’t work at facebook
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by laksdjfkasljdf on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:02PM (#24581491)
"i don't work here. I just volunteer several hours of my day creating engaging content to a billion dollar company for free"
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by sippingjippers on Friday September 25, 2020 @12:45AM (#24586650)
Don't shrug it off, shame and peer pressure those around you who continue to use it, like smoking or drunk driving. Network effects work in reverse too
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by est31 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:53AM (#24579163)
Because Facebook has the power to help or harm reelection campaigns of politicians. Also, if they destroyed the monopolies and with it the market cap of companies like Facebook, the pension funds of many potential voters would look much more meeker.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by jsight on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:50AM (#24579127)
Because when alternatives arise people choose the default path instead of change.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by davidw on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:29PM (#24581085)
I get far less attention on very serious political posts with my own writing and thinking than I do posting a funny picture on FB. And my FB contacts are pretty aligned with me politically, so it's not as if they're uninterested.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by bjoli on Thursday September 24, 2020 @04:11PM (#24583030)
I haven't been on Facebook for about 6 years, so I'm kind of out of the loop. I need more info about this. That's wicked.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by brokenmachine on Friday September 25, 2020 @12:54AM (#24586692)
Facebook is a pseudo-monopoly that does anything evil it can, whenever it can. There, now you're up to date.

Oh wait, actually it was the same 6 years ago as well.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by jancsika on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:16AM (#24579385)
It makes one sad to imagine the revenue lost because Linus neglected to put a business model somewhere in the replication chain of git.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by choward on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:14PM (#24580936)
What? Why?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by andy_ppp on Thursday September 24, 2020 @08:52AM (#24578106)
So is there a conspiracy here or has this guy’s blog just been flagged innocently. I had no idea shadow banning on these platforms existed, it’s extremely scary that they are shaping debate this way silently.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by kortex on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:02AM (#24578186)
I have little evidence, but if someone asked me to risk my life on the existence of shadowbanning/post nerfing on facebook, yep I'd risk it.

They are constantly mucking with what's presented. Not long ago, my feed was pretty well distributed across my few hundred friends. As of maybe a few months ago, it's the same circle of ~20 similar-minded friends. At the expense even of showing me the same post I've seen for 5 days straight.

The people that engage my posts are always a cohort, with 90% overlap with my feed.

I swear there are also things which boost/nerf exposure based on sentiment analysis.

I'm an infrequent user cause it's kinda addicting (infinite scroll) and also this echo chamber trash.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by martin_a on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:14AM (#24578291)
> At the expense even of showing me the same post I've seen for 5 days straight.

I found that LinkedIn is great at this, too. I regularly see posts from contacts in my feed that are three weeks old and that I've never seen before.

edit: LinkedIn will also shadowban your posts if they contain words from a blacklist. Just this morning a contact complained about that. He was very happy about being engaged as a speaker and wrote in a post "Das ist schon sehr geil [...]". While "geil" means "horny", especially younger Germans use that word without the sexual connotation but as a replacement for "great". His post reached only a few dozen people instead of hundreds, as normally.

edit: "Das ist schon sehr geil" could be translated as "That's really great indeed"

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by sneak on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:00AM (#24578657)
Sometimes-censorship of our basic communications in society (increasingly mediated by a small number of military-adjacent organizations like Microsoft and Amazon) is one of the biggest existential threats to a free society.

Most people won’t ever have any real idea of what, or how much, they are being prevented from seeing. You also can’t use these platforms to point out their own censorship. I imagine most people have no real idea that most of their feeds on all the platforms they use are heavily censored, or could be totally censored in an emergency.

This situation is a ticking time bomb. I hope it doesn’t go off this year.

https://sneak.berlin/20200421/normalcy-bias/

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by saiya-jin on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:55AM (#24578615)
FB feed has been crapfest for very long time. It keeps showing me stuff that is easily 1-2 weeks old and I've seen it 10x in the feed. New stuff buried deep.

Or few weeks ago, lasted maybe 2 weeks, they've run some experiment/had bug in their over-buggy web page, since literally nothing moved in the feed. I saw the same posts as week ago, nothing new, in same order.

Also, when covid started, the feed just exploded with ad posts, which were rare for me before.

FB is amoral, abhorrent company with consistently crappy buggy product, that I hope will disappear over time. I'm not naive enough to think their replacement will be better.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by choward on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:17PM (#24580973)
Yet you continue to use it. No reason for them to change. Anyway, I agree it's naive to think their replacement will be better if it's just another corporation behind it. The only real hope is a decentralized open source solution.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by sneak on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:57AM (#24578629)
You can’t promote some posts algorithmically without demoting other posts (until they figure out how to bend spacetime). Putting some stuff at the top pushes other stuff down.

People don’t spend the whole day scrolling, and Facebook knows this. They know exactly how far down each and every person scrolls.

This means they know exactly how much other content they need to “promote” to totally and effectively censor content they don’t wish people to see.

Algorithmic “timelines” (which aren’t timelines at all) are nothing more than censorship: a remote organization deciding what you’re allowed to read.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by dumpsterdiver on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:20AM (#24579430)
(warning - joke ahead) I imagined that this conversation was a game of poker and everyone else was still anteing up and chatting / goofing off, and they all go silent as you push your entire pile of chips into the pot, “I have little evidence, but I’m willing to risk my life.”

Confused players look at each other, “Uh, you mean about the Facebook thing? Why would you do that? We would have been fine just betting a dollar or whatever...”

Then everyone folds and you collect the ante.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by marvin on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:43AM (#24578528)
Of course it isn't innocent. That doesn't even measure up to Occam's Razor, let alone some critical thought. There's political and intelligence participation clearly visible just beneath the surface every step of the way in this persecution. No reason to believe it stops here. I'll readily agree it's scary.

Who wants to bet there is some extrajudicial (ah, sorry, "secret court") system to force prominent online actors to perform acts of covert censorship, in the name of national security or whatever? This would be an easy logical step from PRISM.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by colordrops on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:03AM (#24578687)
It's nearly impossible to mention intelligence interference in the media without getting downvoted unless you are on a conspiracy forum. The sad thing is that there is a ton of evidence for it. A couple big examples are Operation Mockingbird and the Palantir / HB Gary slide deck for taking out Wikileaks, but there are countless others.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by marvin on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:41AM (#24579041)
Huh. I wasn't aware of the conspiracy theory association around the idea of intelligence interference in media. I was just mentioning what appears to be the simplest explanation, in the light of Snowden's intelligence revelations.

Just seems to me that mostly-secret media interference is a less complex problem to solve than the type of pervasive surveillance that requires installing extra rooms of equipment at numerous telecommunications nodes around the world. And we have confirmation that the latter has happened, at least.

Granted, you would expect to hear rumors eventually, as lots of people would have to be involved and still manage to both keep their mouths shut and hide the activity from everyone else.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by bb123 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:57AM (#24578630)
How does "massive international deep state conspiracy to censor reporting on a trial" vs "innocently/negligently flagged due to x" not hold up to Occam's Razor?
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by piokoch on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:51AM (#24579141)
Good question. Note, however, that before Snowden we have also been saying - look on those idiots posting about mass surveillance by NSA on their conspiracy maniacs forums. So good FB/Google/Twitter are removing all those crap.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by eternalban on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:32AM (#24578947)
This is a fair question.

A set of random tosses of a coin (even if the coin is partially biased) is expected to produce a mix of heads and tails outcomes. The random toss here could be human error or undiscovered bugs.

On the other hand, the international order is relatively old. There is no ageism in geopolitics, just ask Henry Kissinger. Established social and political affinities exist, globally. No assumption whatsoever is made regarding an existing, international, and powerful network of individuals and organizations.

Given that such networks exist, and that the stakeholders are indeed powerful individuals and organizations, and further that this case is shining a spotlight on their manipulating social institutions under their control, in a case where an individual is being prosecuted for publishing material detrimental to these powerful interests, no assumption is required to consider the high probability of their use of their power (which is the entire purpose of gaining power, btw) to insure their position, their actions, and their criminal behavior, is kept hidden from the majority.

Occam's Razor.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by rmrfstar on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:42AM (#24579685)
These networks seem to have abandoned whatever sense of decency they had in the early years of the Georgetown set.

We haven't had anything like a Marshall Plan or a Berlin Airlift for some time now.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by btilly on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:07PM (#24580058)
In this particular case there is no shortage of evidence that there is a massive international deep state conspiracy against Assange. Given that fact, the question is what measures this conspiracy is taking and not its existence.

If there was no such evidence, then concluding conspiracy based on what is happening with FB and Twitter would indeed be crazy.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by bavell on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:18AM (#24578324)
Maybe I'm just cynical but there's not a shred of doubt in my mind these companies regularly engage in shadowbanning among many other nefarious activities. They're trying to make money and you are the product after all. They could care less about you or their impact to society.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:33AM (#24578439)
The recent Twitter "hack" showed that the internal Twitter screens had options to ban users from Search or Trending. It's been widely complained about for years by people on the Right.

https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Screen-Sho...

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by colordrops on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:00AM (#24578659)
I follow several dozen very left wing / progressive accounts on twitter and haven't seen any of them on my timeline for weeks. Examples:

Dan Cohen, Max Blumenthal, Abby Martin, Jimmy Door, Mike Prysner, Aaron Mate, Chris Hedges, Ron Placone, Sarah Abdallah, and the Real News Network, along with several Assange supporters and related accounts.

I had to go and turn on explicit notifications for all of them to start seeing content. It's extremely obvious that this is not just one account getting accidentally flagged.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by sudosysgen on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:20AM (#24578835)
There were also people banned on reddit r/politics for posting about various human rights abuses from the US and US police.

I think there might be something to it too.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by colordrops on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:56AM (#24579204)
/r/politics was taken over by David Brock and crew around 2016.

/r/conspiracy has seen a takeover by the right wing equivalents over the last year or so, since the banning of /r/t_d

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Daishiman on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:30PM (#24580372)
It was taken over long before banning of t_d. It was sock puppet accounts and pizzagate stuff way before.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Shivetya on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:15AM (#24578798)
There are numerous accounts of this happening on most media oriented platforms. From simply removing followers to flagging your account as unsafe so it does not appear as a recommendation or public listing anymore.

just cover something people don't like or not PC and it raises your chances.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by neves on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:32PM (#24581122)
The real problem is the opacity of the algorithms. We can't generate evidences that they are censoring the debate. The lack of transparency is a menace for democracy.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Consultant32452 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:33PM (#24581140)
Here's Twitter engineers admitting to it on hidden camera.

https://www.projectveritas.com/video/hidden-camera-twitter-e...

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by piokoch on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:10AM (#24579327)
This is the dawn of new era, where freedom of speech is gone, even though in theory you can stand on the corner of the street and shout to people about things.

This starts to be much worst than communistic censorship - in communistic Poland censorship office was obliged to mark places where the "offensive" content was removed. Facebook just erases that what is "offensive".

I hope that this will be the moment when people start to think if it is really so good that communication platforms keep censoring "improper content".

At first majority was happy that some of those they didn't like and didn't like their views were removed. Now people are learning a hard lesson - anyone views might suddenly become offensive and you will be done, gone, forgotten, fired (see what happen to J.K. Rowling or Bari Weiss).

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Barrin92 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:10PM (#24585903)
>This is the dawn of new era

sorry but how is this a new era? George Carlin caused a row with his Seven Dirty Words on national television because you couldn't swear. Everything that is mainstream is basically devoid of edgy or offensive content because advertisers want entertainment and nothing else.

When you wanted out of the mainstream commentary or scathing critiques you always had to go into subcultures, magazines, the arts, standup or whatever else.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by neves on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:30PM (#24581103)
Now we understand the concerns about TikTok
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by laksdjfkasljdf on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:03PM (#24581510)
> US companies committing censorship

Can't the EFF and ACLU team up on this?

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gamblor956 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @07:37PM (#24584942)
This is what the guy is complaining about: Facebook and Twitter are still hosting his posts and tweets, but that some of his followers claim not to be getting notifications about every single one of those posts/tweets.

Facebook has auto-throttle: if you post too many times within a span, it stops sending notifications about every post to your followers unless they interact with one or more of your posts during that span. This is desired behavior, by 99% of people, because we don't want our newsfeed flooded by that one annoying friend with no life, unless we choose to follow up.

So no, the EFF and ACLU can't team up on this because there's no active censorship, or even passive censorship.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by laksdjfkasljdf on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:12PM (#24710364)
If you host something but false-positive flag it as spam[0], did you host it?

[0] which let's be honest, is what happened when you casually say "auto-throttle"

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:30AM (#24578411)
First the censors came for the right-wingers, and I did not speak out— Because I was not right-wing....

That's the problem with putting in place censorship. Sometimes it affects people you like.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by mft_ on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:07AM (#24578722)
I don’t think freedom of speech is a left-right wing issue. There are people who strongly support free speech on both sides, and likewise there are censors on both sides.

It’s more of an authoritarian-libertarian axis issue.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:50AM (#24579794)
I think in general terms as a political philosophy I would agree with you.

I think in terms of how restrictions on speech are implemented by Facebook/Twitter/YouTube it absolutely seems to be more used against right wing sources.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Daishiman on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:31PM (#24580393)
The most popular posts in FB are from fox news taking heads.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Friday September 25, 2020 @04:31AM (#24587816)
Try finding a post mentioning Gavin McInnes.

You can't even mention McInnes' new website censored.tv on Instagram, even in private messages.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by pmachinery on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:14PM (#24580153)
Craig Murray doesn't seem particularly right-wing to me. Meanwhile, here someone describes not seeing several dozen left-wing sources on Twitter for weeks:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24578659

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:27PM (#24580322)
Oh agreed. He's very left wing.

You could argue, though, that Assange/WikiLeaks isn't very popular with the left due to how they helped torpedo Clinton's campaign.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Miner49er on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:44PM (#24581261)
"The left" doesn't like Clinton either. There's a big difference American liberals and leftists, and it doesn't make much sense to group them together. I'd say the vast majority of those on the left have a favorable view of Assange.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by 9HZZRfNlpR on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:35PM (#24580456)
Assange is your typical cold war era anti war guy, it was sick how suddenly the American left wing spat on her for shitting on status quo. He was a messiah for the left when he did the same for Bush administration. Anyone remember Palins emails? At least for Clinton there was something to reveal.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by gadders on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:20PM (#24581006)
Yeah, I think he is one of these activists that will call people out whatever side of the political spectrum and so spends his time oscillating between which side dislikes him most.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by josefresco on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:26PM (#24581057)
"right-winger" content is the top content in the US every single day on Facebook.

Source: https://twitter.com/FacebooksTop10

Those voices are hardly being silenced.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Cthulhu_ on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:18AM (#24578824)
But you have to ask, did they censor right-wingers, or did they censor beliefs and behaviour that is often associated with "the right wing", e.g. racism?

I mean if the right-wing feels attacked because their posts get banned so much, maybe they should take a closer look at themselves.

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by Malcx on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:11PM (#24580118)
>> I mean if the jews feel attacked because their families get gassed so much, maybe they should take a closer look at themselves.

Yeah I'm being facetiously inflammatory there, but c'mon you can make a better argument than that?

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by 9HZZRfNlpR on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:39PM (#24580506)
Right, but for Americans everything that is not certified by democratic party is racist so there's not much to look into. No one really buys that argument unless you're extremely naive.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by HugeAcumen on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:05AM (#24578698)
Thanks, I was wondering how this was the fault of the left.

*/s

Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday September 24, 2020 @10:20AM (#24578842)
I don't think it's helpful to blame things on broad groupings of the political spectrum like "the left". But a discussion on how scary it is the social media platforms are shaping debate needs to acknowledge the existence of large, powerful movements demanding that they build the tools and precedent to do so.
Re:Assange Hearing Day 16 by chippy on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:47PM (#24580608)
In another post on HN today the users overwhelmingly agreed that "Yes, social media should censor stuff".