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Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by api on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @11:46AM (#24555904)
It's similar to our reluctance to criticize Saudi Arabia even when there are links between their upper crust and the largest terror attack ever on American soil. Saudi Arabia is still one of the largest oil spigots with the easiest ability to turn that spigot on and off and therefore set global oil prices, so we don't dare offend them.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by adventured on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:48PM (#24556797)
The US no longer requires any oil from Saudi Arabia, they're now almost entirely incapable of harming the US with that formerly potent resource weapon in terms of shutting off supply (mostly what they can do to harm US economic interests now instead of turning it off, is to flood the market and damage US producers).

For 2019 total US petroleum production (crude + petro products + biofuels) was 19.3m barrels per day (bpd), consumption was 20.5m bpd. Imports were 9.1m bpd, exports were 8.57m bpd.

Imports dropped from 13.7m bpd in 2005, to 9.1m bpd for 2019. Net imports (imports minus exports) dropped from 12.5m bpd in 2005, to 500k bpd for 2019 (the lowest figure since ~1952).

Imports from Canada have gone from 500k bpd in 1980, to 4.4m bpd in 2019. All of OPEC supplied 1.6m bpd to the US in 2019 for contrast. Imports from Saudi Arabia were down to just 530k bpd in 2019 (cut in half since 2015/2016). We could sneeze in West Texas and wipe that out at this point.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by api on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:58PM (#24558434)
It's not about physical imports but about the price of oil which is set internationally. Oil is a global market.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by stjohnswarts on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @11:57PM (#24562795)
Sure it is now, but if OPEC started raising prices drastically the US government can take measures to control prices here since we are more or less independent as far as oil supplies/refineries go.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by golergka on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:21PM (#24557276)
Two points.

First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him.

Second, supporting current regime in Saudi Arabia sounds barbaric and morally reprehensible — as long as you don't find out who's their internal opposition is. Surprise: it's not freedom-loving democratic westernised students. It's even more radical and aggressive religious zealots. If US stops supporting House of Saud, it will be a new Iran or even ISIS there, but with much better economy and a pretty capable military.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by baybal2 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:58PM (#24558439)
> First, Ben Laden had ben persecuted by Saudi Arabia and had to flee the country. Long before the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia was trying to get him.

Which didn't prevent them spawning, and continuing support of hundred others like him.

What you say is conflating with something like "If USA took down NSDAP, Germans would still burn Jews, and even more of them." It is infuriating.

US must stop supporting Sauds, end of the story.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by stjohnswarts on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @11:59PM (#24562810)
Actually they don't and won't for a very long time to come. They are a source of stability in the ME that the US won't sacrifice for human rights abuses no matter how loud hacker news gets.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by golergka on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:56PM (#24560427)
> What you say is conflating with something like "If USA took down NSDAP, Germans would still burn Jews, and even more of them."

But this is not true, whereas the facts I started about internal opposition Saudis face are.

> US must stop supporting Sauds, end of the story.

This would make the world a worse place and lead to a lot of death and suffering, compared to the future where US would still support them. How can you justify such a thing?

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by dahdum on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:10PM (#24556237)
US policy has been moving towards energy independence from Bush, Obama, and through Trump. We're pretty much there now, OPEC can't drive up prices without US shale producers ramping up production, sharply limiting their control.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by eternalban on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:29PM (#24556508)
Our arrangements with the House of Saud include the extremely sensitive matter of reserve status of US Dollar. Control over Persian Gulf — a matter that includes other parties not included in the US-Saudi strategic agreements — is energy related: it is not USA who is dependent on Persian Gulf energy, but near peer challengers, such as China, Japan, and possibly EU.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by sitkack on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:31PM (#24556546)
Jimmy Carter would like a word with you.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by yowlingcat on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:37PM (#24556620)
What would those words be?
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by sitkack on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @09:03PM (#24561871)
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by yowlingcat on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @10:33PM (#24562370)
Thanks for the context. I think the second one explains what you're trying to say better.

I think one can agree with the spirit of Carter's message while remaining skeptical of how practically it's stood the test of time. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, doesn't the last line of your second article seems to agree with GP's point? Can you describe what you're trying to say in more detail?

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by sitkack on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @12:09PM (#24568615)
Those words would be that Carter was a leader who was looking for the American people. Regan reversed Carter's actions, got us more dependent on foreign oil, deepened our relationship with the Saudis. Rolled back efficiency standards and as a show of arrogant bravado, removed the solar panels that Carter had installed on the Whitehouse. Not sure what Bush the GP was referring to, but what kind of revisionism claims that either Bush moved us towards energy independence.

It is important to recognize how we got into this mess and who the literal and figurative actors are.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by cma on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:35PM (#24556595)
The US is essentially part of OPEC now already. They legally can't be without going through congress, so they just called it OPEC+.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by adventured on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:50PM (#24556820)
In OPEC+, the plus is for Russia, not the US. Russia has been directly coordinating with OPEC on market supply matters.

The US oil producers don't coordinate well with OPEC. It has been an ongoing problem that OPEC has been endlessly complaining about for many years.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by cma on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:38AM (#24579631)
Ah, I guess I misread that. Some article talked about how we were able to coordinate on the reduction even though congress had some moratorium on negotiating with OPEC, and I thought it was through that technicality and that OPEC+ was created specifically to work around it.