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Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by reaperducer on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:43AM (#24518201)
When I was a kid, my father used to raise octopi in our basement in NYC as a hobby. He had about six 55-gallon tanks arranged in two rows.

Every day, he'd come home from work, throw his hat and tie on the coatrack, and immediately head to the basement to play with them. If you didn't play with them, they'd die of boredom, he said.

Their favorite game was "jar." He's put empty Gerber and Ball jars in the tanks, with lids, and they'd swim in and out and in and out of the open jars. Eventually, they'd learn to open the closed jars. And then they'd spend hours swimming inside the jars, and closing the lids behind them, and trying different sized lids to see which ones worked on which jars. It was all very fulfilling to my father.

I don't know what happened to the octopi when they got mature. My guess is that he sold them to pet stores or restaurants or something.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by mamp on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:15PM (#24518630)
Probably living happily on a farm...
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by social_quotient on Saturday September 19, 2020 @08:39AM (#24527013)
I thought only my pet rabbits and turtles went there
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by ianai on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:08PM (#24518537)
They have a gland or something that kills them before they live longer than a few years. The specifics probably vary.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by swyx on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:10PM (#24518569)
whats the evolutionary reason (i know there doesnt have to be one) for something like that?!
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by rikroots on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:38PM (#24518903)
I googled "why do octopuses die so young" and came up with this article: https://www.sciencealert.com/mother-octopus-senescence-death...

> The maturation of the reproductive organs appears to be driven by secretions from the optic gland. These same secretions, it seems, inactivate the digestive and salivary glands, which leads to the octopus starving to death.

> In 1977, researchers removed this gland and found that the octopus' mothering instincts disappeared. She abandoned her eggs, started feeding again, and went on to live a much longer life.

As a reproductive strategy for an (arguably) intelligent animal ... this makes me feel sad. However there's plenty of octopuses around so in evolutionary terms it's a strategy that works.

As for the males - and this is the point at which my anthropomorphic 'yuk' reflex goes into overdrive - they die soon after their first successful sexual encounter. Males store sperm in one of their arms. For some species, 'sex' involves detaching that arm and giving it to the female to keep for later use. Then they wander off and die. Possibly from disappointment.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by deanCommie on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:10AM (#24524962)
I think octopuses are a good counter-example to the concept of Intelligent design.

edit: to clarify, they're MAGNIFICENT creatures, and are a testament to the unfeeling unemotional beauty of actual Evolution - it has no plan. It is random. It only works because of odds. That some traits get selected for more frequently ON AVERAGE.

Sometimes that can lead to some interesting places...octopus, platypus, narwals. Hell, most animals are RIDICULOUS when you get down close.

But this curse of the octopus's intelligence being severely artificially limited so they can't progress and evolve.

Maybe the meaning of life is for us to use our technology and medicine to help the Octopuses live long and fulfilling lives and put them on a path to continuing evolution and together the human and octopuses species are meant to conquer the galaxy.

Alas, in this dimension, we fucked up and destroyed their habitat instead.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by hakfoo on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:48AM (#24525688)
You'd love Children of Ruin.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Thlom on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:03PM (#24519933)
There's a Radiolab episode about this. An Octopus mother brooding her eggs for month on end and then dying just when the eggs hatched. Episode title is Octomom.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by kbenson on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:49PM (#24524491)
And that, people, is how you tell a joke on HN.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by watersb on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:37PM (#24522929)
How is this different from human reproductive cycle?

Asking for friend.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by ves on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:16PM (#24523271)
Har har.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by shard on Friday September 18, 2020 @06:56PM (#24522657)
Sounds like female octopus with the gland removed could be a good pet. It's like spaying a cat.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by sdbryan on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:16PM (#24522794)
megablast, you might have missed the possibility that it allows the octomom to not die immediately after tending the eggs.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by megablast on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:05PM (#24522717)
Sure, lets disable animals for your amusement.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by shard on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:19PM (#24522813)
I suppose it's true that spaying and neutering is technically disabling an animal. I guess not having pets would be the best solution for people who consider spay/neuter harmful. But for people who are okay with the idea of pets, and who do not wish to breed their pets, many find the control of breeding instincts and behavior helpful, not to mention the long term health benefits for the pets.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by swyx on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:57PM (#24519139)
i mean.. i feel for all my octopus brothers. i would too.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by pvaldes on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:39AM (#24526740)
I think that sexual tentacles from males can regenerate, but I'm not sure at this moment.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by bmitc on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:43PM (#24524794)
Male octopuses will often be eaten by the female after copulating.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by blnqr on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:52PM (#24519797)
Only the good die young
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by phkahler on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:23PM (#24518730)
>> whats the evolutionary reason for something like that?!

You can never really know the reason with evolution because every plausible effect is in play and part of the optimization process. Having said that, one reason for adults to die may be to conserve resources (food) for the young in times/areas of scarcity. Another may be to prevent excess breeding by an individual, which may reduce genetic diversity. There are probably other viable reasons as well.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jbay808 on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:42PM (#24518950)
> Another may be to prevent excess breeding by an individual, which may reduce genetic diversity.

That sounds like group selectionism. In what circumstance would this be deleterious to the propagation of that individual's genes?

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by MayeulC on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:12PM (#24519302)
Lesser genetic diversity is always bad for survival: with clonal species like the bananas we cultivate, for instance, a single pathogen can endanger the whole population.

The less diverse the population, the less likely timely mutations will help protect it. Incidentally, our modern society is pretty diverse, especially as we protect those who couldn't otherwise survive without modern medicine.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jbay808 on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:59PM (#24519890)
No disagreements there, but adaptations that are advantageous for the population as a whole won't necessarily spread through a population.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QsMJQSFj7WfoTMNgW/the-traged...

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by MayeulC on Saturday September 19, 2020 @09:51AM (#24527413)
Ah, I better see your point. Well, that adaptation has to be selected for at some point of course.

Among a single species, with a 50/50 split of a genetically diverse and homogeneous population, if you eliminate 10% of the former and 75% of the latter, the split becomes 80/20. If that distinction stemmed from genetic factors, you have selected for diversity.

Genetic diversity isn't only advantageous to the population. It's advantageous for the individuals that carry it, depending on the circumstances. Therefore it can easily be selected for.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by reason-mr on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:06PM (#24519235)
Surely if genetic variation is introduced primarily by the breeding process, any factors which have a effect against like (competing for food, less genetic variation), etc, are going to get selected against? I have always thought this was the reason behind human lifespans - in neolithic times, up to 33 years. Just enough time to mate and raise another individual to maturity.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jacobush on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:25PM (#24519475)
No, medium 33, some could get old. Just not most. And median and medium got dragged by high child mortality.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by dash2 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @05:49AM (#24526315)
What is "medium"? I know median and mean.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jacobush on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:11PM (#24529355)
Ok, that's just mean. Medium I mean, in my native language, is mean.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by watersb on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:40PM (#24522951)
Teleology != Ontology

There doesn't have to be a use for an evolutionary trait. It can be an utterly useless feature. The fact that it persists in this fleeting moment we co-exist with it in this particular million years, only shows that a feature hasn't been rendered extinct. Yet.

But of course, I believe that biologists can construct a cladistic tree that can calibrate how long a particular trait might have been around.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by howlgarnish on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:33PM (#24523466)
Odds are it continues to serve some useful purpose though. Us humans have a whole lot of useful organs, and only one vestigial appendix.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by robocat on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:00AM (#24525720)
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Simon_says on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:38PM (#24524771)
The cool thing about the Internet is there are people of all different levels of knowledge about a subject writing comments on that subject.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by KSteffensen on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:01PM (#24519192)
I've heard a theory that they are cannibals and would eat their young.....
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by thechao on Friday September 18, 2020 @11:56PM (#24524879)
I read an entire book on this! It’s because their expected time-to-predation is very short. Genes that are deleterious to long life-span aren’t selected against and, thus, accumulate. (“Other Minds” by Peter Smith.)
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by nkingsy on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:03AM (#24525733)
Now I have to figure out how to work "expected time to predation" into a sentence. Maybe the next time I eat the last cookie.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by chrisco255 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:35AM (#24525106)
Are whales their primary predators?
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by steve_adams_86 on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:05AM (#24525256)
I know sharks are a significant predator where I live and in places I’ve seen in documentaries. I’d assume that’s the case around all of the oceans since sharks and octopuses occur together everywhere. I’m not sure if that’s the case in the deep sea, though.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by pvaldes on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:42AM (#24526755)
Probably not. I had found a few octopus in cetacean's stomachs, but they prefer squids. Gregarious and much more convenient to hunt.

Seals on the other time... Yup; I can tell you than monk seals definitely eat octopus.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by thechao on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:49PM (#24529622)
The octopuses the author studied were shallow-water reef dwellers. They were predated by fish, mostly.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by clort on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:38PM (#24520379)
One other evolutionary reason is that octopuses lay 20-100 thousand eggs that one time. They really don't need to carry on and produce another batch. Of course, most of those larva are eaten before they make it to maturity, just like many other sea creatures..
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by JoeAltmaier on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:48PM (#24519744)
Octopi are easily damaged. Perhaps to keep the population fit, by frequently turning over older (damaged) members.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by hmahncke on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:35PM (#24518865)
This is a pretty incredible story - thanks for sharing it!
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Cro_on on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:01PM (#24518443)
unfortunately and to shatter your dreams, as mine were, it is and has always been:

octopuses*

tis mixage of greik and latin eytymologies and wyll not bey allowed

by the way is your dad thomas pynchon?

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by bgun on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:06PM (#24518512)
Languages, especially English, are democracies - if enough people say octopi, it eventually will be (and may already be) octopi.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by LolWolf on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:15PM (#24518633)
> Languages [...] are democracies

I think the French would like to have a word!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_Française

(On the other hand, rules aren't binding, so it's more like a "will of the people (if the people's will is large enough)"?)

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by qchris on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:44PM (#24518974)
According to my one semester intro course, this is referred to in linguistics as either a "prescriptive" or "descriptive" approach to language. As I think you alluded to, while the prescriptive approach defines people's attitudes regarding how certain approaches to the language are viewed ("this is right/wrong"), it rarely ends up actually changing how the language(s) themselves get used and develop.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jakevoytko on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:34PM (#24518857)
I took a French class last year, and the teacher spent a lot of time identifying differences between academy French and how people actually talk. Things like "Je ne sais pas" => "Chais pas," which sounded like "shay pa." It seemed like the people still had a lot to say about how French should unofficially be written and spoken, even if it couldn't be used in formal settings.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by MayeulC on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:45PM (#24518990)
Well, thus is, strictly speaking, the difference between "I don't know' and "I dunno". Speakers know this is a colloquial saying.

There might be a few areas where official bodies are lagging behind usage ("postuler à" being one I have in mind), but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jacobr1 on Friday September 18, 2020 @09:25PM (#24523942)
> but I'd say that grammar nazis and teachers alike are actually somewhat effective IMO.

We have no evidence this is true. Certainly historically we know it isn't the case, there very strong evidence surrounding how languages drift over time that exist alongside contemporary pendants later proving to have not made a difference. But we also haven't really had a society with near universal literacy before so maybe that changes the dynamic.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by simlevesque on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:40PM (#24520401)
> "postuler à"

Today I learned that I used it "wrong" all my life.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by MayeulC on Saturday September 19, 2020 @06:56AM (#24526559)
I know, right? Languagetool brought it to my attention the other day. "postuler" == "to candidate" seems absent from the dictionary, though it's in common use.

http://www.academie-francaise.fr/postuler-postuler-pour

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by samradelie on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:34PM (#24521005)
That's neat the teacher brought up the 'tiers' of formality. As an american kid in France growing up, the 'vous-voyez' was instilled early on along with evaluations over the years in written and oral style. You probably remember 'liaisons'? It's as though in the same way a vowel at the beginning of a word causes the last consonant of the previous word to be pronounced, as familiarity increases and formality decreases, the words themselves begin to blend. Somewhere between your examples there'd be "j'ne sais pas" and then if your a high school kid in 2005, "Saich aps"
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by samatman on Friday September 18, 2020 @05:03PM (#24521869)
The French verlan is a prime demonstration that, in point of fact, King Canute cannot stop the tide from turning.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by picodguyo on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:24PM (#24518737)
"The Oxford English Dictionary lists octopi, octopuses and octopodes (in that order)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_form_of_words_ending_in...

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by DanBC on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:51PM (#24519069)
Does it?

octopus

(ˈɒktəpəs, ɒkˈtəʊpəs)Pl. octopodes (ɒkˈtəʊpədiːz), anglicized octopuses.[mod.L. octōpus, a. Gr. ὀκτώπους, acc. ὀκτώποδ-α eight-footed, f. ὀκτώ eight + πούς, πόδ- foot.]

octopus

A genus of cephalopod molluscs, characterized by eight `arms' surrounding the mouth and provided with suckers; an individual of this genus (esp. one of the larger and more formidable species).

1758: Baker in Phil. Trans. L. 778 “The Polypus, particularly so called, the Octopus, Preke, or Pour-contrel.”

1835: Kirby Hab. & Inst. Anim. I. x. 308 “The body of the octopus is small, it has legs sometimes a foot and a half in length, with about two hundred and forty suckers on each leg.”

1880: Browning Pietro of Abano 401 “Help! The old magician clings like an octopus!”

1884: H. M. Leathes Rough Notes Nat. Hist. 46 “Saying that enormous octopuses existed on the western side of Panama, in the Pacific Ocean.”

octopus

b. fig.; usually applied to an organized power having extended ramifications and far-reaching influence, esp. harmful or destructive.

1882: Greg Misc. Ess. ii. 37 “We are the very octopus of nations.”

1893: Boston (Mass.) Jrnl. 25 Mar. 2/1 “The electric octopus. Formal organization of the New England Street Railway Company.”

1894: Westm. Gaz. 12 Mar. 2/1 “He was an administrative octopus, a cormorant of toil.”

octopus

c. attrib. and Comb.

1880: G. Meredith Tragic Com. (1881) 206 “Then they laid octopus-limbs on her.”

1894: Outing (U.S.) XXIV. 460/1 “An octopus power sought to tear the human limpet from its clinging place.”

1898: P. Manson Trop. Diseases i. 9 “A strange-looking octopus-like creature.”

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Cro_on on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:22PM (#24519449)
Person with Volume X (Moul-Ovum) of the second edition OED in front of them here..

a simple reply to this would be that in no dictionary 'pu' comes before 'po' :)

granted, octopodes comes under the heading of octopus, as it's plural, so it is technically after.

but following the loose nature of the quote in hand, it is also in fact true that octopi comes before octopuses, it just so happens to be attached to the full word 'octopian' - suggestive of an octopus

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by aqme28 on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:19PM (#24518690)
By that logic shouldn't it be octopodes? That way we're consistently greek.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by alteria on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:07PM (#24519250)
Yes. I volunteered at an aquarium for several years, and we spent a surprising amount of time learning octopus etymology. It was a top 10 question for adults to ask.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jfk13 on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:49PM (#24519757)
Octopus entomology? I think you meant etymology.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Falling3 on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:08PM (#24519988)
Octopus entomology sounds a lot more interesting
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by jtolmar on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:16PM (#24522793)
You have to admit though, octopus entomology /would/ be surprising.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by alteria on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:02PM (#24520669)
Yes, whoops!
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Cro_on on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:06PM (#24519244)
yes, they are almost the same

the greek d was actually a hard th sound iirc, Δελτα being pronounced 'thelta' as opposed to 'delta'.

hopefully that clarifies (and is actually accurate) how octopuses and octopodes are connected

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Anon4Now on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:51PM (#24519070)
I don't know, but I kind of like "i" being the plural of "us". It makes all my decisions seem unanimous.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by thunderbong on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:24PM (#24519466)
Shouldn't that be unanimi?
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by chrisweekly on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:32PM (#24519559)
unanimoi?

(pronounced "yew-nan-i-mwa" as in French "me")

;)

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by blnqr on Friday September 18, 2020 @01:51PM (#24519788)
unanimata
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by toolslive on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:35AM (#24526721)
sometimes the plural of a word ending on 'us' ends on 'i'. Sometimes it does not. Even if the origin is Latin, it varies (lupus vs fructus). However when borrowing words from another language, things become interesting and subject to ignorance and fashion (not necessarily in that order).

Pro tip: Pizza Pepperoni (Italy vs US)

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by reaperducer on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:22PM (#24518723)
octopuses

Like "Vaxen?"

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by userbinator on Friday September 18, 2020 @10:06PM (#24524222)
Octopaxen.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by drcongo on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:02PM (#24518450)
That story took a turn.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by reaperducer on Friday September 18, 2020 @12:24PM (#24518736)
Italian neighborhood. As a kid, I don't think I ever had a restaurant meal that didn't have octopus somewhere on the table.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by simonebrunozzi on Friday September 18, 2020 @02:54PM (#24520571)
The plural for octopus is not octopi, but octopuses [0].

I am telling you not to be pedantic, but because I would appreciate to be corrected. Hope you feel the same. :)

[0]: https://qz.com/1446229/let-us-finally-resolve-the-octopuses-....

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Baeocystin on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:59PM (#24521258)
Another point of view:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-many-plura...

Octopi, octopuses, and octipodes have all been used. I personally think octopi rolls more smoothly off the tongue than either of the other two, so that's what I tend to use.

I find the arguments regarding Greek or Latin purity to be unconvincing- we are speaking neither language. We're speaking English, which is a head-on collision between the two, with Germanic trappings gluing it all together. I happily mix and mash whatever prefix, root, infix or suffix I like. If others like it and use it, success! Whether a theoretical Roman from centuries past would agree does not enter the calculation.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by GormHouj on Friday September 18, 2020 @07:20PM (#24522821)
Your argument is that all words are made up?

You could say this about any language and of course, it still holds true.

Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by Baeocystin on Friday September 18, 2020 @08:00PM (#24523116)
No. My argument is that applying rules from other languages as if we are speaking them, and not English, should not hold sway. Rather, we should pay attention to sound and flow in English when deciding how to pluralize, etc.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by colechristensen on Friday September 18, 2020 @04:28PM (#24521560)
Whichever one you use, most people will understand you, so ultimately it doesn’t matter. English is full of loan words and they’re often used in different ways than their source languages. There isn’t a settled plural in English, though many people have strong opinions about one or another being right.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by reaperducer on Friday September 18, 2020 @03:32PM (#24520979)
No need to apologize. I used "octopi" because that's what my father always said. I have no opinion on the matter.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by lquist on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:06AM (#24532822)
Interestingly enough, octopus has multiple pluralizations, the other being octopodes
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by commonturtle on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:11PM (#24529741)
Wow, that is an incredible story. One day, when / if I have a big enough house I'll build my own octopus aquarium :)
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by shostack on Saturday September 19, 2020 @02:13PM (#24529376)
This reminds me of the beginning of Children of Ruin, the second book in Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time series.
Re:Giant Pacific Octopus by hannofcart on Saturday September 19, 2020 @09:47AM (#24527385)
Your dad reminds me of someone I know named Senkovi. :P