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Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by starfleet_bop on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @08:28AM (#24480440)
Why did Twitter end up killing Vine? Seems like a bad decision now since TikTok is pretty much a direct replacement. I thought Vine was quite popular back in the day.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by moneytide1 on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:06AM (#24480749)
I wondered the same thing. It's the exact same service that just changes hands every few years under a new brand.

In grade school before the internet, this occurred through physical products. My first grade trend was Yo Yo (Yomega, Brainstorm, Duncan), second grade Pokemon trading cards (Digimon, Magic, Yu Gi Oh), third grade finger skateboards (TechDeck), fourth and fifth segways into middle school when social systems are developing so its clothes brand trend pursuit which is when I checked out because video games were starting to get interesting.

Phones and Xanga/Myspace arrived roundabout when I got my driver's license.

I'm sure there were similar toy brand trends pre-covid when kids were still seeing each other every day and sharing physical toys.

TikTok released some official report the other day in compliance with whatever legal motions were recently filed, and it keeps saying the word "clusters" when referring to users.

I guess it's just yet another company that wants to compete over access to "clusters" of users aged 12-35 (that's the widest age range I would expect to be concerned with the latest communication app offering that enables the exact same utility they already had with Vine/Snap/Tik).

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by pjc50 on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:30AM (#24480966)
The lead Viners demanded to be paid while Twitter completely failed to monetise it. https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13456208/why-vine-died-t...
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by colejohnson66 on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:12AM (#24481368)
I can’t really feel bad for the Viners. I sympathize with the idea that Twitter is/was mooching off free content, but at the same time: One should never make content with the expectation of getting paid, and then post on a free website that doesn’t pay anyone.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by cvhashim on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:15AM (#24481398)
The thing with tiktok, it’s really easy for content creators to insert links to their websites, merch, other social medias into videos so it allows them to make some money from interested users.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by rchaud on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:45AM (#24482582)
Whereas US-centric apps like Instagram do everything possible to prevent users from leaving the walled garden. "Link in bio" is commonplace for numerous accounts. User-hostile and completely antithetical to the idea of an interlinked web.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by rimunroe on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @01:58PM (#24484401)
I've never seen more than one link in a person's profile on TikTok, and "link in profile" is still a common phrase on there.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by vxNsr on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:22AM (#24481483)
Twitter couldn’t figure out a monetization strategy. Also the main reason tiktok grew so popular is bec of their algo, good algos is something twitter sucks at. Finally the idea of using an algo to surface content the way tiktok is doing is actually novel and wasn’t really apparent 5 years ago.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by apahwa on Wednesday September 16, 2020 @02:01AM (#24489976)
I think I'm missing something. why was it novel to use an algo to surface content 5 years ago? Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc have both been doing that for a very long time

is there something unique about how tiktok is doing it?

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by mrkramer on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:02AM (#24480707)
I wonder how Twitter is even alive because the amount of mismanagement that happened in the last 10 years is staggering.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by jl6 on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:23AM (#24480898)
Winner-takes-all-network-effect-first-mover-advantage.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by adventured on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:40AM (#24481048)
A spectacular example of how hard it can be to remove a networked product/service once it's entrenched.

You can do a lot of things wrong if you reach that position, and still keep your place.

People will reference MySpace as a counter to that. Except MySpace was never close to being entrenched, they had no moat or stake in the ground. They never had all the world's celebrities and politicians on their platform, using it as a core broadcast method to the world.

At their peak in 2006-2007, MySpace's monthly active users measured in the tens of millions. Certainly very large for its time, however as a general purpose social network meant to pursue max scale, MySpace contrasted against Facebook demonstrates just how dramatically far away from entrenched-scale MySpace really was (they got maybe 10%-20% of the way there).

To put it into perspective, Cristiano Ronaldo's following on Instagram is as big as MySpace at its peak. Now that's an entrenched max audience social network in action.

MySpace was too early, before there were enough global users to even be able to obtain that level of necessary entrenchment protection. Their network - for its specific purpose - was small enough that it was still quite possible to unseat them. Facebook's boom phase also coincided perfectly with the rise of the modern app smartphone beginning in 2007-2008, which ultimately brought the Internet to a dramatically larger audience around the world (and was responsible for enabling Facebook to reach three billion users; without the smartphone that would either never happen or would have taken several more decades).

I reference the type or purpose aspect because obviously not all social networks are max scale general purpose networks. Twitter's potential base isn't three billion users, as that many people will never want to use the platform under any circumstances. Each type of social network has a max potential userbase (Pinterest's max base is different from LinkedIn's which is different from Facebook's). Twitter has likely heavily (not entirely) saturated their maximum reach and long since gotten to the required entrenchment scale for what they particularly do.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by cvhashim on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:17AM (#24481415)
Twitter has pretty much captured the bite-sized, piecemeal form of Internet-based content in tweets and such.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by tyingq on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:19AM (#24480855)
My kids still watch Vine compilations on YouTube, and they are mystified as to why it was shut down.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by jug on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @06:25PM (#24487439)
There were even celebrities using it to make funny videos. They had good timing and foresaw where social media was going. Baffling how they couldn’t monetize it.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by cowmix on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:15AM (#24480827)
Thank you! When my kids tried to explain TikTok to me I responded, "So it is Vine?"
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by Waterluvian on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:38AM (#24481026)
Vine was delightful. A lot of funny stuff on it all the time.

I think Twitter was incompetent when trying to make it a business.

It’s the Minecraft effect. Just because a person or organization hits it huge once doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing and will be able to repeat success.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by bzb5 on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:11AM (#24480793)
Mark Zuckerberg: “Twitter is such as mess — it’s as if they drove a clown car into a gold mine and fell in.”
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by tyingq on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:19AM (#24480862)
The irony is heavy.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by pletsch on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:40AM (#24481049)
Facebook isn't a mess business-wise, they print money
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by adventured on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:16AM (#24482127)
Not only has Facebook always run their business in a vastly superior way in terms of cost in the system, they never went through something equivalent to the fail whale mess that plagued Twitter. Facebook's performance problems have been minor compared to what Twitter has gone through.

As a business, Twitter should be far more profitable than they are, their profit margin is 1/3 that of Facebook at the same level of sales (2011 for Facebook), despite having 1/2 the number of users that Facebook had at that point time.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by tyingq on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:17AM (#24482148)
I was referring more generally to how they print money (gold mine) despite, or maybe because of, a user and privacy hostile experience (clown car).
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by dominotw on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @08:33AM (#24480470)
My group of friends used to use Vine all the time. Never used twitter. I was quite shocked when they killed it.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by dghughes on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:40AM (#24482506)
I'd say that is the business model Tik Tok "WTF happened to Vine"? Vine was popular but not exploited (for lack of a better term) so Tik Tok picked up where Vine left off.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by grenoire on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:10AM (#24480777)
Not-really-affiliated-but-kind-of Byte (https://byte.co/) totally failed with its launch, such a shame.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by zedpoeticbits on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:47AM (#24481134)
It has failed? How so? I checked them out when they first launched and they seemed to be doing pretty great. What happened?
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by untog on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:49AM (#24481150)
I have Byte and browse it every now and then. Maybe it failed if the only metric of success is hockey stick growth, but when I open it I see an active community.

If it does well enough to be self-sustainable then I consider that a success. Not everything has to be Silicon Valley level stratospheric.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by xwdv on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:29AM (#24480957)
I don’t know why people say this.

Vine was nothing like TikTok. The editing tools of TikTok are vastly superior and lead to much higher quality videos with higher probability of being worth watching.

Vine was mostly shitty little 6 second clips of meme like content. Good for some laughs, but ultimately vapid and shallow. By the time they even wanted to experiment with longer format content they were done.

That’s not even mentioning cultural differences.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by ForHackernews on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:43AM (#24481090)
> Vine was mostly shitty little 6 second clips of meme like content.

Isn't this what Tiktok is? I thought it was mostly tweens dancing and lip syncing.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by srtjstjsj on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:56AM (#24482739)
TikTok doesn't have the 7sec limit that killed Vine's breadth of use cases.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by xwdv on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:02AM (#24481271)
Try actually using TikTok. For more than a few minutes.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by silveroriole on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:36AM (#24481642)
I tried it. The majority of videos for a new user account came up as either incredibly inappropriate videos of tweens or incredibly racist videos of tweens (seriously, I was surprised at how many racist/pedophile jokes came up). Maybe if you curate your liked videos you can get out of that, but I genuinely felt uncomfortable using it as a 30yo.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by srtjstjsj on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:59AM (#24482772)
Just like reddit default front page and the Google News front and the Twitter front page.

But people love the subreddits for their interests.

There's no way to make a single front-page that everyone likes.

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by mistermann on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:36AM (#24482446)
Like most anything else non-simplistic, it's easy to form an inaccurate picture of something with a casual examination, and TikTok is one of these things (in that it contains communications from humans, on of the most complex things in existence).

An example of the good stuff you can run across on TikTok is this lady:

https://www.tiktok.com/@arizonagypsy

Roughly, she made some videos lamenting the phenomenon of how her children and grandchildren have ~"forgotten" her, despite the fundamentally important role she played in their life in the past.

I couldn't find the original video (why can't you sort by date posted!!!???), but these give you an approximate idea:

https://www.tiktok.com/@arizonagypsy/video/68683101136402874...

https://www.tiktok.com/@arizonagypsy/video/68683779147448517...

I think it would be fair to say she has a feeling of not being wanted/valued, not being useful in the complex new world we've created. Something like that.

Well as it turns out, these posts seem to have struck a chord with a fair amount of people (35.8K Followers, 396.5K Likes), and she now fairly regularly does live streams (she was initially extremely hesitant, because she didn't really see why people would want to watch, which is somewhat paradoxical to her original complaint) with >100 (last time I watched) people watching who just ask her random questions and she answers them. Everyone seems to get something out of it: she now has a genuine purpose and value in life, and viewers have the opportunity to ask questions for which the answers cannot be found on the internet, if they're even there at all.

I personally think this is a form of Magick[1], and I mean that not only unironically, but I think this is what we need to get us out of the absolute mess we've created on this planet. Education, logic and critical thinking, which we're not nearly as good at as we perceive, doesn't seem like it's anywhere near up to a task this large.

[1]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Magick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick_(Thelema)

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by xwdv on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @10:44AM (#24481737)
I have no problem consistently getting older TikTokkers. I like their content and the algos oblige.
Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by abc-xyz on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @11:28AM (#24482330)
I also tried after hearing people on HN speak so highly of their recommendation system.. I only watched (in full length)/searched for/liked videos of a specific gender/race/age group.. yet even after liking over a hundred videos, then 100% of the videos they suggested to me were the wrong gender/race/age group. YouTube on the other hand is capable of recommending the correct videos after watching just a couple.

It’s very easy to conduct this experiment, just make sure that the race you target doesn’t represent the majority of the users in your proximity. For instance, if you’re in Norway then try to get TikTok to recommend Asian girls aged 20-35.. sounds like it should be easy, right?

Re:YouTube launches TikTok competitor, Shorts by untog on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @09:50AM (#24481157)
They can both be summed up as "meme like content" but beyond that they're really very different. I'm not sure why the OP is being downvoted, really.