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Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by hinkley on Sunday September 06, 2020 @02:55PM (#24393712)
My most plausible scenario for the Singularity now is someone figuring out how to augment short term memory with implants.

I think we are going to find that attention is dominated by working set memory, and people who can juggle even twice as much stuff are going to operate fundamentally differently than those who can’t afford or won’t have the surgery. And past 5x it may become difficult to even communicate, much less compete.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by kanzure on Sunday September 06, 2020 @03:25PM (#24393946)
Interesting concept. One of my favorite mutations in humans is a single nucleotide flip that confers 19% improvement in working memory capacity. Substantially underrated. Would only work on embryos, of course.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by AlexCoventry on Sunday September 06, 2020 @05:48PM (#24394929)
Which nucleotide site is that?
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by kanzure on Monday September 07, 2020 @12:22PM (#24400458)
It's on my list: https://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/

rs17070145 in KIBRA/WWC1

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by AlexCoventry on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @08:19PM (#24415241)
From a 2006 GWAS on 351 subjects? I would give 100-to-1 against this panning out as a causal association.

Also, this was done with very low-resolution genotyping. Even if it's a genuine association, rs17070145 is probably not the causal variant, just something which is in linkage disequilibrium with it.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by Metacelsus on Sunday September 06, 2020 @09:51PM (#24396051)
Citation?
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by kanzure on Monday September 07, 2020 @12:22PM (#24400461)
(cite given above)
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by acituan on Sunday September 06, 2020 @03:58PM (#24394188)
> I think we are going to find that attention is dominated by working set memory, and people who can juggle even twice as much stuff are going to operate fundamentally differently

I would be careful equivocating working memory, attention and processing power. Attention is much more complicated than what one can juggle in mind actively, what is chosen to enter and leave it also matters, just as the shape and form of the task it conforms to. There is no singular unit in brain that “creates” attention, it is best thought as an emergent property of several, if not all, parts working together.

Besides that, even if we assumed a von Neumann architecture for human cognition, an increase in memory wouldn’t have expanded total processing capacity unless it was starved of it. I don’t think that is the case for humans, if there was a selective advantage to having more working memory as general problem solvers, we would have had it already. Granted, the types of tasks we undertake today can be different in shape, but not completely; still need to survive a physical world, still need to have successful relationships, still have to manage emotions, still have to do all of these while doing our specialized abstract cognitive tasks.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by MauranKilom on Sunday September 06, 2020 @06:52PM (#24395284)
Working memory is probably closer to cache than main memory, and it's imo extremely limited and slow to warm up. Imagine a CPU with just 6 cache lines for non-OS code...

Although your argument of "if it brought such an advantage, we should have evolved into it by now" does hold water too. I suppose it hinges on how much of an evolutionary advantage we actually have from excelling in the kind of deep abstract thinking that some jobs require nowadays, vs. how much this improvement would've been worth in past centuries.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by IggleSniggle on Sunday September 06, 2020 @10:37PM (#24396199)
Yes, and remember that the enhancement needs to be net positive for both survival AND reproduction.

There are clear reproductive advantages to distraction. If your actions prioritize your own wellbeing (or the furthering of some cognitive task) over the instincts to eat, reproduce, and protect your children, your genetics will be at a disadvantage.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ehnto on Sunday September 06, 2020 @03:21PM (#24393904)
I think you are right for deep work, but in my opinion it's getting to deep work that is the problem most people face. Having a deep work switch would be life changing.

Once I get into a deep work state, the ability to hold and reason about more of the problem would definitely be helpful.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by minitoar on Sunday September 06, 2020 @03:39PM (#24394048)
Imo one of the biggest issues with “deep work” (aside from motivation) is loading everything into short term memory. Maybe if my short term memory was enhanced to be reloadable, or maybe if I had enough short term capacity that I could retain the working set needed for deepness and be interrupted by a coworker for something unrelated.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by hinkley on Sunday September 06, 2020 @04:28PM (#24394398)
And not letting someone who wants to know if you are going to the meeting later upset the entire house of cards.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Sunday September 06, 2020 @06:08PM (#24395053)
I can't say whether more short-term memory would make us smarter, but I can say that when I had a short-term memory problem, I could do everything except program.

This dependence on short-term memory is why I find Rust's borrow checker intolerable during exploratory programming. Whatever coding bugs it prevents have to be strongly outnumbered by design errors it causes by stealing attention from the most critical activity at that time.

The borrow checker would deliver 100% of its value if it limited its enforcement to release builds, and just reported numbers otherwise.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by dlannoye on Monday September 07, 2020 @01:51AM (#24396924)
One thing I setup in a large TypeScript project is not having type checking errors block outputting JavaScript. We still require all commits that go through PR to pass type checking and even enforce the compiler's script mode, but locally we try to ensure the developers can iterate on an idea as fast as they want and refine later. This system has been well received by all of the developers working on the project.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by glouwbug on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:46PM (#24395593)
Yes but if the borrow checker is not enforced people _will_ release unsafe code because the borrow checker was optional. It's sort of like how Go enforces same line curlies. It was a decision made to unify the look of the syntax at it's birth, and unfortunately even a curly bracket enforcement is enough of a deterrent as it limits one's expression regarding personal choice. The designers of these languages have an agenda, and by using their tooling we agree to their idea of wisdom. The alternative is something like C. While fun to write, it's a mistake to use unless every programmer onboard is highly skilled with it's pitfalls
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Monday September 07, 2020 @01:24AM (#24396791)
I see that you did not read what I wrote.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by reitzensteinm on Monday September 07, 2020 @01:38AM (#24396862)
I don't think that's fair. I guarantee if what you suggested came to pass there would be projects that swap to debug builds to solve a momentary issue... and never swap back.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by aprdm on Monday September 07, 2020 @02:46AM (#24397132)
How's that a problem is the product works and there's less friction to develop? Let's say it produced buggy code and the cost of not enabling it was great than enabling, am sure projects would enable again..
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Monday September 07, 2020 @02:53PM (#24401649)
And users would know this, and make their own choice whether to rely on the project.

Removing agency from users of your program or programming language is not a recipe for success.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by reitzensteinm on Monday September 07, 2020 @07:31PM (#24403803)
You torched the pretense of civil debate by declaring GP wouldn't have written what they did if they had of read your post.

I don't agree with you on this issue or your "recipe for success". The reply was fine.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:18AM (#24405409)
Easily said, and lets you avoid engaging on substance. Congratulations.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by reitzensteinm on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @01:46AM (#24405521)
You avoided engaging on the substance of the parent comment in favor of a dismissive remark, and then again avoided engaging on substance when I called you out on your bad behavior. Please don't troll this site.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @09:01PM (#24415533)
I am quite familiar with the tactic, often employed on this very site, of pretending to answer something that was not said. It is trolling, and I know better than to engage with it. Complaining about not engaging with trolls is itself trolling, which you have now done twice. Accusing people of trolling for not engaging with trolls is trolling.

You have introduced yourself, and I promise to remember.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by monadgonad on Monday September 07, 2020 @04:40AM (#24397733)
No, they read it and rightly saw that if there is any way of getting around the borrow checker, people will just take that route.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by ncmncm on Monday September 07, 2020 @02:59PM (#24401710)
We can allow glouwbug to speak for him/herself, if you are right, or quietly and honestly accept the embarrassment, and learn from it.

The easiest way to "get around the borrow checker" is not to use Rust at all. We have evidence of people using it, so they are proof positive that not everyone will "just take that route".

If you meant not everyone, but some people, then yes, we know there are people releasing programs not coded in Rust, many quite successfully.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by notemaker on Sunday September 06, 2020 @03:41PM (#24394064)
This is touched upon in [1]. Great book.

[1] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Vernon%20Vinge+A%20Deepness%20in%2...

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by hinkley on Sunday September 06, 2020 @05:51PM (#24394947)
Those people were scary. I had blotted them out.
Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by WhompingWindows on Monday September 07, 2020 @09:07AM (#24399170)
We already have a computer-brain interface: it's our fingers constantly touching our "phones".

With such advanced devices hand-held already, why would we even need to interface with the human mind? If we're at the point of human-computer interface, which is probably 100+ years away, we will already be beholden to 100 more years of innovation in mobile devices, which is hyper-charged by capitalism already.

Think back to 2000: Very few people could have imagined the vast implications of these simple hand-held devices. It's much easier to make a hand-held, rectangular, "multi-tool" computer, based on existing tech, than creating a new class of technology to interface with neurons and store biological data.

Now, these simple "phones" have destroyed entire industries, created entirely new ones, allowed the scaling up of all kinds of mis and disinformation, and allowed the capture of human attention on a massive scale.

How many people in the rich world do not have a phone? How many poor people are trying to get one? How many times per day do people check their phone? How long do they use it?

We have all enrolled in a massive psychological experiment, something evolution or society as we built it never had to contend with. The "singularity" is coming and our devices are opening the door to it day by day.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by koheripbal on Monday September 07, 2020 @09:55AM (#24399435)
This is a great point, and I think it highlights the fact that there is no good software to push/pop/schedule short-term memory items, and organize them into a simple priority scheme.

I think part of the problem is that almost all software is designed to be usable without training/learning, so almost all task management tools get reduced to lists - which are inefficient.

We need a tool that retrains our brains to generate units of work that, aside from a line of descriptive text, also contain: NPV, value-over-time, hierarchical dependencies, resource allocation, location dependence, etc... ...and then have a simple piece of software prioritize based on calculated optimized order of action.

Re:Attention is your scarcest resource by yourapostasy on Monday September 07, 2020 @11:08AM (#24399915)
The discontinued closed source LifeBalance published by Llamagraphics took a stab towards that. DateBk6 published by Pimlico Software also was moving in this direction.

A PIM application ecosystem with a storage and RPC system like Newton soups (but updated to Internet security paranoia), stored in an open, highly-parseable format like Emacs Org Mode, with the enormous tweakability and context-sensitivity of DateBk6, combined with the dynamism of LifeBalance, would be very interesting.