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Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by juliansimioni on Monday August 31, 2020 @06:55PM (#24336693)
[pilot here]

There's a lot more to managing planes in bad weather than landing them: you can't exactly fly through a thunderstorm.

Furthermore, sometimes go/no-go decisions have to be made a long way out. If it looks like there might be lots of thunderstorms near your destination, it's sometimes prudent to divert immediately rather than risk being near an airport with weather too bad to land AND low fuel.

A great example is a youtube video by stevo1kinevo: he's flying a TBM 850 (fast turboprop) from Florida to Boston International. While checking the weather enroute he decides the chance of storms near Boston is too high, and with the complexity of getting in and out of a major airport, he decides well in advance to divert to an airport on Long Island. This sort of stuff happens all the time and is the very definition of good airmanship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzOsXya4zw

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by drran on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @02:55AM (#24339189)
So, one experienced pilot will need to make this decision for all roboplanes.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by jzwinck on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:51PM (#24337100)
> you can't exactly fly through a thunderstorm.

You can't, but can a UAV? I'm curious how much more tolerant of bad weather a plane can be if there are no people inside. Are storms often strong enough to knock a plane out of the sky?

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by rlpb on Monday August 31, 2020 @08:26PM (#24337279)
> Are storms often strong enough to knock a plane out of the sky?

Simply put: yes. Not just any thunderstorm. All thunderstorms.

All aircraft avoid thunderstorms. It's not a case of discomfort for humans inside it; it's about the risk to aircraft themselves.

Thunderstorms contain severe updrafts and downdrafts and huge windshear between them. Aircraft cannot outclimb the downdrafts so cannot maintain altitude inside them. And severe windshear will tear them apart.

The only reason you don't hear about aircraft lost in thunderstorms is because pilots avoid them. All of them.

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by m4rtink on Monday August 31, 2020 @10:59PM (#24338120)
A friend of mine who is a glider pilot once compared thunderstorm to a steamroller.

If you get hit by the leading edge your plane will get smashed into the ground. If you somehow get to the back part, your plane might end up in the stratosphere, which might be just as fatal due to very low temperature and lack of oxygen.

He mentioned some early gliding pioneers who were insane and lucky enough managed to "ride" a thunderstorm and achieve record breaking flight distance - and somehow not getting killed in the process.

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by hamandcheese on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @01:38AM (#24338894)
So how do hurricane hunters survive? Are hurricanes less, for lack of a better word, volatile?
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by CPLX on Monday August 31, 2020 @08:46PM (#24337388)
> Are storms often strong enough to knock a plane out of the sky?

And then some. The forces in a run of the mill thunderstorm could rip the wings off a plane in seconds.

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by scoopertrooper on Monday August 31, 2020 @08:11PM (#24337192)
The addition of people to the plane makes zero difference to storm survivability, why would it?

Storms are definitely regularly large enough to bring down even large aircraft, it doesn't happen often because planes of systems on board to ensure they avoid such weather, but it can happen!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Airways_Flight_242

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by ghayes on Monday August 31, 2020 @08:00PM (#24337148)
Flying by instruments, I wonder how high the risk truly is. One of the bigger concerns might be an instrument failure, like the failure of the airspeed sensors on Air France 447.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by bfuclusion on Monday August 31, 2020 @08:36PM (#24337317)
Very very high. What fuels a thunderstorm is large amounts of air rising, and falling very rapidly. When the aircraft encounters those air movements it can very quickly exceed the structural limits of the aircraft.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by usrusr on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @05:15AM (#24339853)
Some more detail: flying in rising or sinking air isn't a problem in itself, as long as you can tolerate the change in altitude. But flying from one into the other, fast, is a sure way to exceed structural load levels.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by sokoloff on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @06:44AM (#24340331)
There were many failures in the cockpit of AF447. Almost all of them were aft of the instruments.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by juliansimioni on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @10:01AM (#24341779)
Problem exists between keyboard^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H yoke and chair
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by Ericson2314 on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:05PM (#24336766)
On the ground operator can also make those calls? Really, it's like fleet-specific air traffic controller + rc pilot.
Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by juliansimioni on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:21PM (#24336889)
Yeah, definitely. And thinking about it more I'm sure there are some air traffic controllers that manage 10+ airplanes fine (although they aren't as involved as the pilots, so a remote operator would have a higher workload).

I bet a fleet of commercial autonomous aircraft operation out of private facilities would also have a lot more common procedures (all their airspeeds, climb/descent rates, etc would all be the same), so it might even be easier.

Re:FedEx feeder plane takes flight without pilot in test for... by whiddershins on Monday August 31, 2020 @07:49PM (#24337082)
Also maybe they could pool resources? Like pilots in an area where everything is fine leave their planes on full auto and go take over another plane from another pilot?

Edit: Or maybe, expect the planes to be fully auto, then have a bank of pilots available to take over any plane that is having troubles.