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Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by jacobwilliamroy on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @09:30PM (#24289294)
That is the modern tech business model. Rope in naive people with excellent services offered at a loss or at cost, wait for them to develop dependence, use nazi cult-think psychology to inculcate irrational loyalty to the platform, then take everything away in a major software update and sell it back to the poor fools for big profits.
Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by zxcmx on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @10:25PM (#24289576)
It's possible for developers to think they are shipping must-have features _and_ for users to see that as "messing up all my menus" and "disrupting my workflow".

Inevitably some users will complain about changes in every new update while others complain about a lack of eagerly awaited new features and bug fixes. You cannot make everyone happy :/

I'm sympathetic to the idea that workflow/ui changes should be explicit updates (or on beta opt-ins) with security/crash fixes being automatic. This model makes the most sense for professional tools that people make a living from (e.g. CAD). To be sustainable, software with multiple supported major versions will cost more.

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by grugagag on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @11:14PM (#24289808)
Don't force updates on people. For the ones who want to update asap they should be able to do so. I prefer to make sure a major update is not going to fuck my system then I will update as well, it's happened to me before multiple times and I am forever hesitant about this. It's also happened to me to get featured removed when updating so if something is working allright I will hesitate updating for a while.
Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by zxcmx on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @11:48PM (#24289951)
Context matters. So 3d sculpting software or CAD do not deeply need automatic updates, although it can greatly reduce support requests (e.g. something in the OS changed, software is now crashing, need to install update).

The state of play in 2020 however is that operating systems and browsers 100% need automatic updates for security issues. The reason we have them is because of all the bad things that happened when we didn't.

There should then be a very small switch hidden somewhere deep in the system where people like you who know what they are doing can turn them off. For the people who are using the software to say, run the electrical grid and a) care more about stability than security and b) pay people to write scathing reports about all the patches they're not installing.

IMHO there is a sticky middle ground with respect to office suites and email clients where the software is widespread enough that bugs are wormable.

Updates as a whole are inter-twingled with the developer's support and release model, how they a/b test and general maturity in terms of managing change. I feel like we're often complaining about different aspects of this when we talk about "updates".

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by unionpivo on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:14AM (#24291225)
I have been in IT for over 20 years now.

I have had orders of magnitude more problem with updates than with malware/viruses/hackers.

The thing is with malware/viruses/hackers sooner or later something will get through any defences, so you need robust recovery system anyway.

And most updates that brake systems are not even security updates. I wouldn't mind automated security updates, but many many many maybe most vendors pile whatever happens to compile to their updates so that they customers can test it for them.

Firefox on mobile just fucked us in the ass (extension we developed for client doesn't work anymore and we can't fix it. And since we have support contract we will probably have to eat the cost of whatever alternative we have to build.).

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by burntoutfire on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:59AM (#24291916)
> I have had orders of magnitude more problem with updates than with malware/viruses/hackers.

Maybe that's precisely because the updates are preventing you from being owned?

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by wolco on Thursday August 27, 2020 @08:20AM (#24292903)
The % of security fixes vs speed ui improvements is 100 to 1. Very rarely do we get issues that require forced updates that a once a year limit on these types of updates would be ideal.
Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by scarface74 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:49AM (#24293639)
I have been in IT for over 20 years now. I have had orders of magnitude more problem with updates than with malware/viruses/hackers.

Until you get hit by this....

https://www.giac.org/paper/gcih/201/microsoft-iis-superfluou...

It was the first widespread IIS vulnerability that almost hit me. The tl;dr version: All you had to do was encode a shell command in the url bar if the site was running IIS and it would execute it on the server.

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by unionpivo on Thursday August 27, 2020 @10:50AM (#24294223)
Oh we(organizations I have worked for) have been hit several times (not IIS, but once it was several wordpress sites we used, once it was outlook, once we never figured out - probably inside job, ... ). But that was 3, 4 times in 20 years.

Updates its 3,4 times per year. Like I said order of magnitude difference

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by arexxbifs on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:01AM (#24291150)
The article specifically states

> should be incremental and security or bug fixes only

There's a big difference between that and, for example, constantly pushing UI changes that nobody asked for and for no other reason than that some designer somewhere decided that "A/B testing" would look good on their resumé.

Re:Why Johnny Won't Upgrade by wyclif on Thursday August 27, 2020 @03:03AM (#24290821)
CAD software like AutoCAD or Microstation is the worst for this. Before I was a developer, I was a land surveyor, and I used to have so many updates bite me in the ass in exactly the way the author describes. Honestly, open source has made things a lot better since I don't have to deal with enterprise type shrink-wrapped software anymore.