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Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by andrewtbham on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:00PM (#24200295)
Billionaires are good for society. elon musk and jeff bezos are leading the way into space and that is huge for humanity. If you tax them you will literally stop humanity from becoming multi-planetary.

The comparison to aristocracy is absurd. The US was founded abolishing the class system because the wanted equal opportunity, not equal outcome.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by big_youth on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:11PM (#24200468)
>Billionaires are good for society. elon musk and jeff bezos are leading the way into space and that is huge for humanity.

Enough with the blanket statements, Sure bill gates is ok but just yesterday the front page had a story of the Sackler family and how they amassed billions by pumping the united states with opiates. They literally killed thousands and ruined the lives of millions, while destroying American society. Billionaries are people, some evil some good.

Also, the point of a government is to provide for it's citizens (with taxes) not to hope that in a 100years we can settle on other planets. And btw, in that scenario we would not be the ones who end up on Elysium. As much as SV programmers like to think they can be part the billionaire class you are not and will never be an oligarch.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by wuliwong on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:42PM (#24200900)
> the point of a government is to provide for it's citizens (with taxes)

I this this is objectively incorrect for the USA.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by zepto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:40PM (#24200860)
I thought it was Doctors who pumped the United States full of opiates.

I also thought the demand was a result of political policies that didn’t provide support for communities who were impoverished by the globalization of manufacturing and other industries.

Yes, the Sackler’s profited, and were irredeemably bad actors in this, but they are just one part of the story.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by mgkimsal on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:28PM (#24200697)
going further, if sackler family started funding space exploration.... are they now good?
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by chasd00 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:39PM (#24204072)
For the people who worship at the feet of Bill Gates the answer is definitely yes.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kuzimoto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:38PM (#24200842)
> the point of a government is to provide for it's citizens (with taxes)

Isn't this a sort of oxymoron? The taxes come from other citizens. The ones who are paying a majority of the taxes are not provided for by the government. Government should seek to provide everyone equal protection of their rights.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by oblio on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:32PM (#24200750)
Gates delayed the progress of the internet by about 5 years, intentionally. I know he's doing a lot of good lately, but let's also not forget the bad.

Who knows how many other good things he's delayed indirectly because he delayed the internet so much?

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by zepto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:44PM (#24200913)
If not implementing things that later become important is immoral, we are all guilty.

You could just as easily say that Gates advanced the progress of the internet by driving the price of PCs down so that more people owned them.

It’s also reasonable to say that these decisions were a major reason why Microsoft lost their dominant position.

Gates is rich, but he lost his power over the software industry over this.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by achenatx on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:41PM (#24200874)
Drugs should be legal and people should be allowed to buy and sell them.

I would rather have the sackler family than the drug cartels.

You believe the point of govt is to provide for its citizens, that doesnt make it a fact.

Others believe the point of government is to protect us from each other while letting us make personal choices for good or ill.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by monooso on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:18PM (#24200578)
> Billionaires are good for society. elon musk and jeff bezos are leading the way into space and that is huge for humanity. If you tax them you will literally stop humanity from becoming multi-planetary.

This argument really doesn't hold water.

For a start it implies that becoming a multi-planet species would be impossible without Musk or Bezos holding vast personal wealth. There is no reason to believe that.[1]

It also implies that Bezos couldn't possibly fund Blue Origin if he was worth (say) a paltry $100 billion, instead of his current $190 billion.

[1] You could, for example, use some of the money from a "billionaire tax" to fund NASA.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by aeternum on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:34PM (#24200771)
>For a start it implies that becoming a multi-planet species would be impossible without Musk or Bezos holding vast personal wealth. There is no reason to believe that

There is 50+ years of evidence that we will not become multi-planetary without private funding. The only reason NASA was funded enough to get to the moon in the first place was because of the cold war. Very unlikely it would have happened otherwise.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by zjaffee on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:52PM (#24202662)
The soviet union was the first one to go into space and had far more of the outer space firsts than the US. They also had no market incentives to begin such projects.

It's ridiculous you could even bring up the cold war without acknowledging the major scientific and engineering breakthroughs done by communist societies.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by aeternum on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:55PM (#24204231)
Both the US and Soviet Union basically stole rocket tech and rocket scientists from Germany after WW2. The only reason the US and soviet governments supported and funded those rocketry efforts was due to the military and intelligence benefits.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by mlindner on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:07PM (#24202049)
> For a start it implies that becoming a multi-planet species would be impossible without Musk or Bezos holding vast personal wealth. There is no reason to believe that.[1]

I'd say there's significant argument that it is indeed impossible. Democratic governments as a rule do optimize for cost where currency is created by fiat. Private capital generally does in order to stay in business and not go bankrupt. There's tons of recent evidence showing that existing space business is incredibly inefficient in cost.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by dane-pgp on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:00PM (#24202784)
> You could, for example, use some of the money from a "billionaire tax" to fund NASA.

Alternatively, you could allow billionaires to donate some of their billions, untaxed, into non-profits which they control and which have humanity-benefiting goals like space colonisation or clean energy or medical programs.

There could be problems, however, with these non-profits hoarding vast amounts of resources long after the billionaire dies, at which point a wealth tax on the non-profit's unused assets might make sense.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by andrewtbham on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:40PM (#24201669)
To state it more accurately, a wealth tax will lower the odds that elon musk will colonize mars. even with his wealth... i think it's safe to say the odds are agains musk colonizing mars.

he doesn't pay income tax cuz he usually have income, no salary. he just has stock, and he lives off debt against the stock. he will be forced to sell stock to pay a wealth tax. he will have less control over his companies.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by andrewtbham on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:47PM (#24201761)
It's true, it's possible a nation-state could colonize mars. But there is a problem for the US.

Presidents come to office, scrap the previous adminstration's space goals, create their own new goals and then their's are scrapped by the next admin before they come to fruition. It takes more than 8 years (the max a president can serve) to really follow through on an ambitious vision for space.

Billionaires can stick with it longer.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by robotresearcher on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @03:24PM (#24203158)
The STS and ISS programs both lasted decades. ISS is still flying. It's shown to be possible to have generation-length projects.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by andrewtbham on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:33PM (#24204021)
Yeh, that true. It's just hard to create a sustainable program. STS was retired. ISS will be probably be retired in 2025.

George HW Bush wanted to go Mars then scrapped it when he got the price tag. In 04, George W Bush wanted to go to the moon by 2020. Obama scrapped the moon 2020 plan and planned to go to Mars by 2030. Trump is sending them back to the moon then Mars.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by andrewtbham on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:52PM (#24201830)
read "the case for mars" to get the story on the dysfunction at nasa and the presidents changing every 8 years. It's from the 90s and talks about how bush wanted to go to mars but the space station won out for the funding.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by zentiggr on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:08PM (#24200417)
And in the ensuing time, those with money and influence built up the class distinctions in the legal and tax codes. The comparison isn't an exact match, but the class distinction IS.

Bezos may be contributing to the privatization of space, but he's doing it by exploiting the ones who keep the merchandise flowing through the cash cow. 19th century robber barons honed some of that machinery, Amazon has capitalized on and honed to a fine sharpness that blade.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by ayemiller on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:58PM (#24202761)
I think you misunderstand the purpose of taxes. They are not designed to kill people.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by gowld on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:13PM (#24201312)
Humanity will never becoming multi-planetary. Billionaires might become multi-plantery.

The US was founded with an extreme class system -- slavery, and aristocratic-only male-only voting. The founders judgement is not sacrosanct.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kuzimoto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:22PM (#24202226)
> The US was founded with an extreme class system -- slavery, and aristocratic-only male-only voting.

The US is the story of a country that is constantly struggling to live up to its founding ideology. Slavery was widespread globally at that time, and ended up fighting its most deadly war to end it. Over time its flaws were sought out and eradicated to give way to the most prosperous and free country in human history, all within a couple hundred years.

The founders were not perfect (no one is), but did realize the evils of slavery and some did end up releasing their slaves.