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Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by echelon on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:13PM (#24123667)
They were doing fine until Chrome ate up all the market share.

Google shouldn't have been allowed to do that. It's very anti-competitive for them to have a browser that defaults to Google search and disables plugins that support adblocking.

Google is destroying Mozilla. Their monopoly is making the web worse.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by TylerE on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:25PM (#24123864)
Chrome didn’t destroy Firefox. Firefox destroyed Firefox. Chrome was SO MUCH better it could't help but win.

Turns out people do actually care about performance and responsiveness.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by echelon on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:27PM (#24123890)
Chrome isn't better than Firefox, and both browsers have varied in terms of their performance.

Google had the advantage of plastering Chrome all over google.com when people performed searches. That's how it got installed everywhere.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by zamalek on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:35PM (#24124034)
Chrome was better than Firefox; it was massively better than anything else. And it had the omnibar. I now find Firefox the fastest, but it seems that it varies from person-to-person/machine-to-machine and Chrome is entrenched.
Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by olyjohn on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:10PM (#24124558)
That's just like... your opinion man. I never found Chrome to be vastly superior to Firefox. Sometimes it seemed faster, and other times it was a total hog. It's been back and forth like that ever since it came out.

Here's an anecdote for you. I worked at a computer store when Chrome was released. People would come in all the time, and they had no idea they had installed Chrome on their computer. They had no idea that it had taken over as the default browser. They didn't know they weren't using IE. Chrome had a super basic installer that asked one question, and it was linked right from Google's home page. I interacted with average computer users hundreds of times every month.

That's how I believe it became the dominant browser. Average people don't care that one browser is slightly faster than the other or has an omnibar.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by zobzu on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:46PM (#24124203)
This, exactly this.
Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by TylerE on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:29PM (#24123926)
That is patently false. Chrome was light years ahead of Firefox in both cpu and memory use for years.
Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by olyjohn on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:22PM (#24124746)
Do you really, honestly thing that is why it came to dominance? There's billions of computer users out there, and the majority of them are not techie nerds. They don't know or care what browser they are using. They just want to click the internet icon. You think all those people were sitting around, opening up task manager, and comparing the results with all of their tabs open? They are all used to the internet being slow. They don't know what part is being slow.

If what you are saying was true, then Firefox should have dominated over IE. Did they take over a large share of the market? Yes, after fighting and fighting for years on end. Chrome just came out, and after putting it on their home page, suddenly their marketshare skyrocketed. I believe that if Google had to put it on a different URL, it would not have gotten the adoption it has now.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by TylerE on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:46PM (#24125104)
Yes.

Techies installed it because of how much faster it was. Then they installed it on all of their parents/grandparents/siblings computers.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by yason on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:50PM (#24124267)
Yes it was. I don't really see the difference anymore, on any practical level. However, Chrome has been removing useful features and not fixing usability bugs while just being more and more invasive, privacy-wise.

I jumped from Firefox to Chrome with no hesitation when I saw Chrome blazing through multiple tabs without any slowdown. At the time Firefox was crawling on like a snail. Now, years later, I jumped from Chromium to Firefox because I could no longer use the browser to preserve control over certain web pages I needed to use.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by kasabali on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @04:50AM (#24129853)
> Chrome was light years ahead of Firefox in both cpu and memory use for years

No it wasn't.

Firefox has always been significantly better at memory usage than Chrome. Here is a benchmark from 2012 [0] and Firefox's memory usage only went down after that [1]. On the other hand Chrome is infamous for its extravagant RAM usage ([2] and million other web search results). Only in the last few years Google have started to pay attention to Chrome's memory use.

[0] Chrome was light years ahead of Firefox in both cpu and memory use for years

[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Performance/MemShrink

[2] https://lifehacker.com/why-chrome-uses-so-much-freaking-ram-...

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by gnulinux on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:36PM (#24124056)
That has not been my experience. Quite the contrary, Chrome never worked as good as Firefox in any of the OSX or linux laptops I owned. The only thing about Firefox is occasionally websites being broken due to Chrome-only support.
Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by kasabali on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @04:59AM (#24129886)
> Google had the advantage of plastering Chrome all over google.com when people performed searches. That's how it got installed everywhere.

That, and aggressive bundleware campaign in early-mid 2010s.

Google paid above market rates for authors of popular Windows freeware like CCleaner, Adobe Flash etc. [0]. They even tried to bribe VLC at some point [1].

I'm always baffled to see commenters in HN were aware of Google Search banners but not this bundleware business. I guess it's due to people here having disproportionately high use of macOS and Linux compared to rest of the world.

[0] https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15280808

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by tyrankh on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:31PM (#24123973)
You're changing tenses from "was" to "is". Yes, firefox is good today. But, back in the day when people had to think hard about which browser to use, it wasn't as good.

ALSO, it's mostly that people switched from IE to chrome, as opposed to switching from firefox to chrome.

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by TylerE on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:34PM (#24124021)
Chrome still beats Firefox in most benmarks, often by 20-25%

Here's one from 6 weeks ago.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=chrome83...

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by marcinzm on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @09:00PM (#24127636)
Firefox was a mess for a long time. It's not the speed that mattered but the stability. Chrome isolated everything into separated threads and processes. One tab couldn't kill the whole browser. Firefox didn't and initially even the UI was in the same thread as the webpage javascript. Doing the switch required having all extensions rewritten so they lost market share in the process (but had no choice by then).
Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by tyrankh on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:36PM (#24124059)
> They were doing fine until Chrome ate up all the market share.

Like, 10+ years ago...?

> Google is destroying Mozilla. Their monopoly is making the web worse.

What in the heck are you talking about. Google doesn't directly make money from Chrome - it's free!

In fact, Mozilla's bills are being paid in large by Google paying for them to use google.com as the default browser.

Mozilla has always struggled to make money. This is not some new phenomenon with the company, and certainly is not because of Google making a good browser.

> Google shouldn't have been allowed to do that. It's very anti-competitive for them to have a browser that defaults to Google search and disables plugins that support adblocking.

I mean... what? They shouldn't have been allowed to do that... because why? Because a browser defaults to a specific search engine?

C'mon now. Google built a great browser that users loved, and they flocked to it. It was faster than all the competitors at the time - including firefox - and had much better word-of-mouth traction. Firefox always had a "techie expert" connotation back in the day, and it bit them in the butt when it came to the average joe deciding which browser to use.

End of story.

There's no sinister anti-competition plot here. For heaven's sake, Google pays loads of Mozilla's bills, and collaborates with them on loooooads of projects!

Re:Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on comm... by jldugger on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:56PM (#24124366)
> What in the heck are you talking about. Google doesn't directly make money from Chrome - it's free!

I appreciate the breath of fresh air Chrome brought in when it entered the market but: every percentage point Chrome takes in the market is a dollar Google doesn't have to pay for search traffic acquisition. Google absolutely profits from the chrome userbase. In the same manner, Android is valuable as a means of avoiding paying Apple for defaults on iOS.

Chrome has always represented a threat to Mozilla's business model, even though it was seemingly more and more profitable with less and less market share (shades of "The Producers"). It'll be interesting to see how 2021 shakes out; Yahoo! outbidding Google for default search engine momentarily put to rest the idea that Mozilla was an antimonopoly figleaf funded by Google. However, the minute Mozilla legally could, they flipped back to Google, and, frankly, that undercuts their bargaining position with Google. And with Yahoo.

> It was faster than all the competitors at the time - including firefox - and had much better word-of-mouth traction. Firefox always had a "techie expert" connotation back in the day, and it bit them in the butt when it came to the average joe deciding which browser to use.

Given how strongly Mozilla's fate is tied to market share, it seems like they should be leaning harder on advertising. I'm told Mozilla has a huge marketing department but IDK what they do TBH.