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Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by visarga on Monday August 03, 2020 @03:42PM (#24042396)
For an in-depth review you can see:

Yannic Kilcher - Big Bird: Transformers for Longer Sequences (Paper Explained)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPE62Gk3EM

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by mdrabla on Monday August 03, 2020 @07:39PM (#24044804)
Thanks for the link - pretty good review. Totally agree with what he says about calling it SOTA. It's definitely a very interesting approach but I wouldn't put that much weight on whether it's achieved SOTA, because of the amount of compute they threw into it.
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by faitswulff on Monday August 03, 2020 @04:07PM (#24042712)
For those who weren't familiar with the acronym as I was, SOTA = "state of the art."
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by JshWright on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:02PM (#24043989)
Thanks, that's definitely not what my brain assumed...

https://www.sota.org.uk/

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by gwern on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:15PM (#24044105)
Bibliography of the various approaches to long-context Transformers: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/hxvts0/d_b...
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Monday August 03, 2020 @11:28PM (#24046245)
I'm one of the authors. I may be able to answer some questions or concerns.
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by lacker on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:42AM (#24046673)
If you compare what BigBird is good at to what GPT-3 is good at, what are the relative strengths of each system?
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @08:28AM (#24049240)
Right now, BigBird is encoder only so it doesn't generate text. Causal attention with the global memory is a bit weird, but we could probably do it.

GPT-3 is only using a sequence length of 2048. In most of our paper, we use 4096, but we can go much larger 16k+. Of course, we don't nearly have as many parameters as GPT-3, so our generalization may not be as good.

BigBird is just an attention mechanism and could actually be complementary to GPT-3.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by sytelus on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:58AM (#24046754)
I'm curious how long this work took. Did you encountered many negative results before you got good results? What inspired you for the main insight?
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @09:05AM (#24049531)
I think the insight is not incredibly original and follows naturally from OpenAI's Sparse Transformer. The idea is similar to Longformer. Two teams at Google had a similar insight, hence the high number of authors.

The original implementation only took a couple of months and was primarily motivated by internal Google applications. Natural Questions was the first external benchmark we tried to validate on, which took a few months to find the right setup. All the other datasets, took a few weeks but the effort was done in parallel given the large team.

There was quite a bit of frustration dealing with Tensorflow, TPUs, and the XLA compiler that maybe set us back a few months, too.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @10:07PM (#24139269)
Edit: This is not meant to criticize the Tensorflow, TPU, or XLA team. They responded quickly to our bugs and made the work possible. I just meant there was some extra organizational overhead.
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by visarga on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @03:26AM (#24047560)
The main advantage of Big Bird is its linear complexity in sequence length. If it were to be trained on the same corpus as GPT-3 what would be the advantages/disadvantages?

I am thinking maybe longer context window, faster training and less memory use, but what about performance, will it measure up?

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @08:59AM (#24049466)
This is something we want to explore. BigBird just replaces the attention mechanism in BERT.

We believe something like BigBird can be complementary to GPT-3. GPT-3 is still limited to 2048 tokens. We'd like to think that we could generate longer, more coherent stories by using more context.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by teruakohatu on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @12:42AM (#24046677)
Any examples of turning complete interaction?
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by phillypham on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @08:31AM (#24049263)
Not really. The proofs are more of a curiosity really. I think the strong performance on QA takes that require multihop reasoning give some evidence that the model is capable of complex reasoning.
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by qeternity on Monday August 03, 2020 @04:51PM (#24043239)
Can someone with more domain experience grace us with the ELI5 of how these sparse transformers differ from vanilla transformers a la GPT-3
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by ianhorn on Monday August 03, 2020 @05:22PM (#24043621)
First off, GPT-3 is absolutely not a vanilla transformer.

The moving pieces here in BigBird are a vector associated with each token in the sequence and a few more global vectors that you can think of as latent variables. Those pieces are present at each layer. The vector in layer i+1 at position t in the sequence is a function of a bunch of the vectors in layer i.

If position t depends on all of the other positions, then you end up computing all combinations. A sequence of length N has N^2 combinations. Papers like this are using different patterns.

In this one, position t only depends on local positions in some small window around t, those global/latent-ish variables, and a small number of random positions. The number of combinations is (the size of the local window + the number of random pieces to attend to + the number of global vectors to attend to) times the number of positions, so it's some k * N rather than N^2. That lets you scale to longer sequences.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by YetAnotherNick on Monday August 03, 2020 @08:09PM (#24045039)
> First off, GPT-3 is absolutely not a vanilla transformer.

I thought it had fixed length window. Can you explain how it differs from vanilla transformer other than the size.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by ianhorn on Monday August 03, 2020 @08:19PM (#24045105)
Unfortunately, they didn't give many details in the paper. It's frustrating, to say the least. Yay reproducibility. They say

> We use the same model and architecture as GPT-2 [RWC+19], including the modified initialization, pre-normalization, and reversible tokenization described therein, with the exception that we use alternating dense and locally banded sparse attention patterns in the layers of the transformer, similar to the Sparse Transformer.

In the referenced paper (sparse transformer) they showed a bunch of different sparsity patterns, and I believe they're referring to either their banded block diagonal sparsity or a true banded diagonal pattern (local windows like bigbird and some other papers). Unfortunately, that paper also was light on details and the repo they open sourced alongside it is inscrutible.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by gwern on Monday August 03, 2020 @09:36PM (#24045598)
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by codekansas on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:08PM (#24044036)
This seems pretty similar to the Longformer, and the performance is not that much better. Is the only difference the random attention?
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by karavelov on Monday August 03, 2020 @05:44PM (#24043818)
Was it named BigBird because it is never going to fly?
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by andrewmutz on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:00PM (#24043973)
I'd guess it has more to do with predecessors ELMo and BERT
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by bobosha on Monday August 03, 2020 @06:32PM (#24044250)
BERT, ElMO et al were Sesame street characters, hence they kept the theme going.
Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by ignoramous on Monday August 03, 2020 @09:08PM (#24045442)
Fun fact: Amazon DynamoDB was codenamed Big Bird, too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21695147

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by karavelov on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @02:54AM (#24047388)
Yes, as the rest of the AWS database services it used Sesame street name. E.g. Elmo was Elastic Cache.

Not flying was a joke from the early design period, I heard. At the end it took off pretty well.

Re:Google ‘BigBird’ Achieves SOTA Performance on Long-Contex... by echan00 on Tuesday August 04, 2020 @03:32AM (#24047585)
Is there a GitHub repo?