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Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by MereInterest on Friday July 31, 2020 @04:53PM (#24013925)
It's my phone, and I can do whatever I want with it. If Apple doesn't like that, they can easily maintain ownership by not selling the device. I don't force Apple to sell iPhones instead of leaving them in a warehouse.

Once I've bought it, it is mine. The entire idea that Apple can do whatever they want on a device that they have already sold is ludicrous.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by chrisseaton on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:25PM (#24014350)
You can already do whatever you want with your device.

Use it as a hammer for all Apple care.

It's just that Apple aren't going to spend their time and money developing software to let you do things they aren't interested in. Why should they?

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by oscargrouch on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:00PM (#24014703)
> It's just that Apple aren't going to spend their time and money developing software to let you do things they aren't interested in. Why should they?

They are spending time and money to prevent that. Or you can create an app store as an app and expect Apple to allow your "app store app" to ship in iPhones? The features are already there in the OS, they use them themselves. They dont need to do anything more.. but instead they work to cripple or prevent others from using it.

This is in essence the spirit of a monopoly.

Ok you personally dont mind for whatever reasons, but there a lot of other harms to the society and civil rights in general going on here. And that was the reason countries and laws exists.. To prevent people or companies in position of power to abuse their power.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by chrisseaton on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:16PM (#24014864)
> And that was the reason countries and laws exists.

I disagree I don't think the reason why have countries and laws is so that you can force someone else to support your product when they don't want to.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by oscargrouch on Friday July 31, 2020 @08:43PM (#24016167)
They don't need to support, they just have no right to forbid. There's a big difference between those two things.

Imagine if windows crippled Netscape by forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows?

And this is just one thing Apple are doing that is unbelievable they are getting away with it.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by chrisseaton on Friday July 31, 2020 @09:21PM (#24016404)
But there's a specific consumer safety reason for it.

Not letting other browsers use their own JS engine (which is what it means to 'forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows' in your analogy) is because Apple want to disallow write|execute for people's safety.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by Silhouette on Friday July 31, 2020 @09:30PM (#24016471)
Not letting other browsers use their own JS engine (which is what it means to 'forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows' in your analogy) is because Apple want to disallow write|execute for people's safety.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's entirely coincidental that Apple's policy also prevents owners of Apple devices from using a browser with modern features that would allow web apps to effectively compete with the native apps from which Apple gets a huge cut of the revenue because of its monopoly control over the app store.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by saagarjha on Sunday August 02, 2020 @08:22PM (#24032943)
Granting dynamic-codesigning exclusively to JavaScriptCore shows a lack of confidence in their platform sandbox and the app store review mechanism, and a (occasionally dangerous) overconfidence in the quality of WebKit's security.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by oscargrouch on Friday July 31, 2020 @10:16PM (#24016768)
But if its because of safety, why only JavascriptCore VM allow write execute flag? If that was the real reason then, dont you think it should also be disabled in JavascriptCore?

Or the real reason, is as it was pointed out in the other comment, is to cripple other browser engines that offer a platform that could actually be competitive with AppleKit's turning their control over the App store (and what people are allowed to access according to their own taste) irrelevant?

And if that's the real reason behind it, its clear the end user best interests are not being taken into account, as in not having access to possible better options according to your own tastes, contrary to what a lot of people in the comments here are trying to make we believe its true.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by mathnovice on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:31PM (#24014416)
They don't let you modify the software on the device.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by chrisseaton on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:33PM (#24014447)
Yes they don't want to build and support the functionality for third-party stores.

I said you can do whatever you want.

I didn't say you can require other people to do what you want, like build software features for you.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by xvector on Friday July 31, 2020 @11:09PM (#24017040)
And they aren’t obligated to develop workflows that would let you.

You can, however, if you figure it out.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by CubsFan1060 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:03PM (#24014057)
I'm curious, if you didn't like the way it is, why did you buy one? None of these things are new. They've basically been the same since they came out.

You largely had a choice of two products. It sounds like one did what you wanted, and one didn't. You bought the one that didn't and now you're unhappy about it. I don't quite understand that.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by p49k on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:10PM (#24014146)
We shouldn’t have to choose between one of two products, each of which is controlled by a giant, unaccountable entity which has its own type of anti-competitive stranglehold on consumers and engages in harmful behavior.

It’s pretty clear the only path out of this situation is to rethink antitrust laws in a society where companies have evolved to evade them, and to legislate.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by scarface74 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:38PM (#24014494)
Apple is very accountable. If users don’t like their products, they can buy an Android. Apple has to give users some reason to pay the Apple premium.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by wayneftw on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:13PM (#24014175)
It doesn’t matter why I bought one. Car manufactures can’t just do whatever they want. They have to follow rules.

What’s wrong with people wanting Apple and Google to follow some rules?

Having a rule that all smartphones should allow sideloading would not be the end of the world for people who like Apple’s app store. Those people would still have the choice to us it.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by albertop on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:40PM (#24014518)
No. I actually like the fact there is no sideloading. Why should I be forced to like what you like.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by CubsFan1060 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:52PM (#24014628)
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just truly don't understand it. It kinda feels like the people that move close to an airport and then complain about air traffic. You knew the deal going in, but you went in anyway. And now you're upset about the choice you made.

So what I'm really curious about is why is that? Regardless of the legality beyond it, why did you make a choice you're upset with?

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by scarface74 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:37PM (#24014488)
Would you also pass those rules for console makers?

Do you also complain that you can’t put gas in a Tesla even though you should have known that it was designed that way?

Did you watch the hearing the other day? Do you really trust those people to regulate tech?

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by jsnell on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#24014315)
I bought an iPad because mobile Safari is a compatibility nightmare and not available on non-iOS platforms, so I needed it just for debugging and testing. Telling 20% of my users to switch to another browser is not an option either, since the only alternatives are just Safari reskins.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by throwaway34241 on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:51PM (#24015174)
> It sounds like one did what you wanted, and one didn't

Two products is not a huge number. It seems likely that neither product was exactly what they want, and this is just a particular thing they don't like about iPhones.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by basch on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:02PM (#24014051)
Should a private company be allowed to sell a secure locked down device, with people buying it knowing that you cant 1) modify the bootloader 2) modify the os 3) sideload apps?

To many people, the fault you find in the product is the added value that differentiates it from competitors.

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by scarface74 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:18PM (#24014241)
And Apple didn’t force you to buy the phone....
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by gramakri on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:22PM (#24014310)
Isn't this an argument against any company/monopoly? No company forced anyone to buy anything.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by yladiz on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:28PM (#24014380)
This argument only works if there is sufficient competition. I would say that Apple has enough competition to agree with the argument that "you don't have to buy an iPhone".
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by scarface74 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:32PM (#24014435)
How is Apple a “monopoly” with less than 15%?

Most people are “forced” to get internet through their cable company because there often isn’t a choice. How many people have to buy a phone that on average is twice as expensive as the alternative and then complain about it?

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by Google234 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:50PM (#24014602)
Mono means one btw
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by Apocryphon on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:19PM (#24014267)
Neither did AT&T.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by scarface74 on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:34PM (#24014453)
If you wanted phone service, you had to buy it from AT&T - because of a government granted monopoly.
Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by Apocryphon on Friday July 31, 2020 @09:02PM (#24016285)
Funnily enough, the government-granted monopoly only came as a consequence of a sweetheart deal that AT&T cut with the federal government- after the gov't first tried to pursue antitrust to halt AT&T's monopolistic activities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsbury_Commitment

Re:The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct... by albertop on Friday July 31, 2020 @05:35PM (#24014475)
None forced you to buy iDevice.