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Re:Who gets invited to the party? by arshbot on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:03AM (#23935586)
Wow. This confirms something I saw SO often as an undergrad.

I went to a predominantly black city college right next door to Georgia Tech, so we got plenty of big companies knocking on our door.

Only they never took us seriously, gave rushed presentations, and never collected resumes. Tech? They got parties, dinners, entire clubs rented out. It was posh, and if you were like me - you figured out ways to get into these exclusive events, evade bouncers and find an engineer just to talk to them.

There are a few people in this comment section talking about how 'minorities and women simply skew differently'. Maybe try walking a mile in our shoes

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by ghufran_syed on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:15AM (#23935661)
Do you think it could possibly be that the black city college might be a lower ranked school than Georgia Tech? Or did Georgia Tech not have any women or minorities? I went to a lower ranked school that was the most diverse in the state, and I've also taken classes at Stanford and Berkeley. There is no question that the students at Stanford and Berkeley were way more motivated, worked a lot harder and were academically much stronger than the students at my school. So I would expect those schools to get a lot more recruiting attention than my school. That doesn't mean the students at my school can't be successful, but it did mean that you had to put in a lot more work than the median student at the lower-ranked school to be successful.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by dmurray on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:06AM (#23936947)
Right. So much of the "racism" that gets exposed in the US is discrimination against poor or less educated people, which needs to be cast as racism to keep the outrage machine flowing. You should tend to discount any race-based statistics that don't correct for economic status.

Of course, there are no examples of elite black-dominated universities abutting poor white technical colleges, so it's not possible to look for an anecdote in the opposite direction here.

There's plenty of historic and systemic racism that keeps black people poorer and less educated. That's where people's outrage should be focused.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by tptacek on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:40AM (#23935794)
The subtext of the story is that the HBCU was visited to check a checkbox, but the students at that school were treated with such disrespect that the underlying bias was clear.

Nobody has any trouble understanding that Duke is a higher-priority recruiting target than A&T.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:43AM (#23936496)
I think the GP is trying to say there's obvious bias and disrespect, but it's not obvious that the disrespect was primarily due to racism or primarily due to school ranking. No school of comparable ranking to A&T but a more Duke-like racial makeup was visited in this instance. There was racism and/or elitism displayed, but there isn't enough information in this story to rule out elitism being the primary driver for the lack of respect.

Certainly the students should have been treated with much more respect. Multiple people clearly confused priority and respect. The two student bodies should have been treated with equal respect, but we can understand why they might not get equal priority. However, there's not enough evidence to rule out plain elitism for the lack of respect.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by freeone3000 on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:24AM (#23937062)
Why bother going to NC A&T if you didn't want the students from there? It's performative at best. Why choose that college in particular? For a diversity quota?
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:56AM (#23937280)
Often these sorts of inconsistent decision making occur because multiple people making decisions disagree. Maybe some person high up in HR in change of recruiting scheduling decided Duke and A&T would be visited on these days. Maybe the person in charge of planning the details felt very strongly they were better off putting whatever resources earmarked for A&T toward events with minority-focused engineering student groups at Duke, and so raided the budget without going head-to-head with the person in charge of recruiting scheduling.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by lstodd on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:50AM (#23937928)
Which is what most probably was the case. Resources are limited, so why waste them.

Besides, I do not really get why those dog&pony shows still exist in the first place.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by tptacek on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:42PM (#23944787)
For the same reason you don't serve leftovers on a first date with someone you're trying to impress. Which was ostensibly what this firm was trying to do at A&T.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by DoofusOfDeath on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:23PM (#23942860)
> Why bother going to NC A&T if you didn't want the students from there? It's performative at best.

You may have answered the question yourself. This is just a guess, but perhaps some employers see business value in those performances.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by tomp on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:53AM (#23937255)
Better half-assing it than not going at all, right?
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:04AM (#23937338)
I'm of the opinion it's better that they go, but reasonable people disagree. There are certainly potential economic benefits to the students at A&T at the time, but it could be argued that longer-term cultural progress is hindered by such token displays.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by scott_s on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:41PM (#23944786)
When the elite tend to be racist, they don't get the benefit of the doubt.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by thereisnospork on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:20AM (#23936379)
While perhaps not the most professional on the recruiters' part it's hardly racist to half-ass a 'check the checkbox' assignment. Unlike the racist tokenism and just outright disrespectful facade of visiting a school when there is little to no (apparent) interest in hiring from.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by vore on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:33AM (#23936450)
It's definitely a little racist to half ass it so hard you're serving leftovers from another school.

I don't think I really agree that visiting HBCUs is racist tokenism unless it is 100% just to get diversity brownie points and nothing else: it's still better than not visiting them entirely and to provide opportunities to underrepresented minorities for which, while the intent is to put them into the corporate grinder, having a high-paying tech job is still a material benefit.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:52AM (#23936533)
> It's definitely a little racist to half ass it so hard ...

Without seeing how they treated students at a similarly ranked non-HBCU, it's difficult to distinguish racism from colorblind elitism. It's probably a bit of both racism and elitism, but without a comparably ranked school for comparison, I wouldn't be comfortable using the word "definitely".

[dead]
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:03AM (#23939610)
Are you asserting that all elitism is inherently racist, or just that it's an absolutely impossible explanation in this case?
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by stale2002 on Friday July 24, 2020 @12:36PM (#23941514)
It feels like you are really reaching to find an alternative explanation, when the original expansion feels pretty clear.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Saturday July 25, 2020 @11:53AM (#23950092)
I didn't say it's not racist. I said there are non-racist explanations for the observed behavior.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by stale2002 on Saturday July 25, 2020 @08:31PM (#23953450)
> I didn't say it's not racist

Ok. If you are going to agree that the situation is almost certainly the result of at least implicit racism, and the alternatives are pretty unlikely then cool. You agree.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by KMag on Sunday July 26, 2020 @08:45AM (#23956690)
The second sentence of my post begins "It's probably a bit of both racism and elitism." I was careful to point that out before pointing out that it's jumping to conclusions to use the word "definitely".
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by onion2k on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:46AM (#23936509)
While perhaps not the most professional on the recruiters' part it's hardly racist to half-ass a 'check the checkbox' assignment.

This is exactly why you can't reasonably accept treating one group of people differently - it might be a lazy recruiter half-ass'ing their job, but it might also be actual real racism. There's no way to tell by looking. The outcome is the same.

If you're willing to give them a pass you might just be enabling a racist.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by concordDance on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:12AM (#23936994)
Conversely, if you insist on equal outcomes:

A. What you'll have to do will depend in how finely you divide your population. E.g. recent african immigrant vs. Slave descended are quite different demographics with different life trajectories and you'll be able to tell one from another very easily. There will be huge political fights over these categories.

B. If you do hire based on population demographics then two things will happen: You'll get a bit more inefficient workplace due to unperforming workers. But more importantly, you'll be surrounding people with a bunch of Xers (whichever the underperfoming demographics is. Hillbillies? African Americans? Republicans? Left handed folk?) who are underperforming. This will cause a strong association in their mind that X=less capable. Xism will then increase.

The influx of women to my workplace really didn't help my colleague's sexism.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by onion2k on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:01AM (#23937318)
This will cause a strong association in their mind that X=less capable. Xism will then increase.

You think your employer shouldn't aim to be increase the diversity of your team because that'd make you racist?

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by concordDance on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:08AM (#23937367)
Not me personally (I keep stats and selection bias ib mind), but in general yes.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by xhfhope on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:36AM (#23936466)
This comment right here. If society wants to mandate the facade, there will be leftovers.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by ljhsiung on Friday July 24, 2020 @02:23AM (#23936398)
If a company visits a school, I 1000% expect the same treatment as any other school.

To provide special treatment is elitist at best, and racist and exploitative for PR points at worst.

And if the entire school doesn't pass the "hiring filter", stop going, and stop making false claims.

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by bigiain on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:59AM (#23937303)
Or, you know, like people have pointed out the Cisco has done when other people were speculating this might have been them - invest/donate to the school in ways that improve their graduate's outcomes...

"Cisco, at least at a time did invest in A&T and NC State, far more so than UNC which it didn’t recruit from for a period."

Re:Who gets invited to the party? by Cthulhu_ on Friday July 24, 2020 @07:01AM (#23938001)
What do you really think about the matter at hand? It sounds like you're playing devil's advocate, but you're not expressing how you feel about the unfair treatment itself.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by paul_f on Saturday July 25, 2020 @09:45PM (#23953773)
If we are going to talk about Georgia Tech, it is worth noting, GT is: No.1 in engineering doctoral degrees awarded to African American students No.1 in engineering undergraduate degrees awarded overall to minorities No.2 in engineering undergraduate degrees awarded to African American students No.3 in engineering doctoral degrees awarded overall to minorities
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by billyhoffman on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:28AM (#23939934)
I can confirm this from the other side. I was a computer science grad from Georgia Tech. When talking with people from Morehouse, the events they experienced with recruiters was very different and less engaged than mine.
Re:Who gets invited to the party? by TwoBit on Friday July 24, 2020 @03:00AM (#23936561)
Georgia Tech vs a City College?