News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by CM30 on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:36AM (#23898844)
I still remember one fake news site that took this to the extreme, in that it linked to a story that flat out didn't exist on the site it linked to. You clicked on the link, and you just ended up with a 404 error page.

The fact that fooled anyone should probably give you a worrying insight into how many people are willing to trust/distrust links without even clicking on them.

But yeah, either way, make sure the link actually goes somewhere, that it goes to a relevant page/article/video/whatever, and that said source does indeed say what the linking said says it does.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by ballenf on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:56AM (#23899074)
That's also a good reason for news orgs to have strict policies around never taking down articles or changing URLs. It happens enough to give cover to the behavior you cite.

News sites could also replace their 404 page with an explanation "there used to be an article here, but we decided to remove it because ____" or "there's never been an article at this address".

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by btrettel on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:29PM (#23899401)
There's a HTTP status code for pages which were deleted: 410 Gone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes#4xx_...

This was famously used by Mark Pilgrim:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pilgrim#%22Disappearance%...

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by elliekelly on Monday July 20, 2020 @02:10PM (#23900373)
Has anyone ever seen this in the wild? I didn’t even know it existed. Who knew there were so many different status codes.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by LukeShu on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:07PM (#23900878)
I'm sure I've seen 410 in the wild, but it's pretty uncommon. If you're keeping track of things well enough to know that there used to be a page there in order to serve a 410, you're probably keeping track of things well enough to be able to do something better, like redirect to an updated URL.

> Who knew there were so many different status codes.

As an HTTP nerd, the authoritative listing of the different codes is: https://www.iana.org/assignments/http-status-codes

Note: Everything with a reference that's not RFC 7231 is an extension; don't use that status code unless you actually implement that extension. For example, don't use 401 (Unauthorized) instead of 403 (Forbidden) unless you actually implement the RFC 7235 Authentication extension.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by spc476 on Monday July 20, 2020 @05:10PM (#23901945)
I use it to mark pages that I have taken down for good [1]. I have also used 418 ("I'm a teapot") response code on my gopher server to discourage web bots from attempting to index the site.

Edit--added note

[1] For all the good it does. I just checked my logs and I still see requests for pages I marked as "gone" 15 years ago.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by tracker1 on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:44PM (#23901190)
I use it for APIs when an item gets marked as deleted, vs actually deleted... depends on the underlying data though.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by btrettel on Monday July 20, 2020 @02:30PM (#23900537)
Seems that I edited my comment to add an example at the same time you posted yours.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by irl_zebra on Monday July 20, 2020 @03:20PM (#23900973)
GitLab does it for links to deleted repos!
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by komali2 on Monday July 20, 2020 @11:56AM (#23899078)
About five or six years ago I spent a long time making outrageous claims on Reddit, and I'd wrap various parts of it in link tags. The links would go to random nytime articles, random papers, or simply nowhere at all. Then I'd watch as the outrageous claim propagated (this in niche communities). It was absolutely terrifying.

I never, ever got called out.

EDIT: I'm remembering now I'd pretend to be all sorts of people, swapping hats within minutes, always waiting for someone to just pop open my post history and see that at one moment I'm a teacher and 5 minutes later a firefighter. It was kind of a joke, kind of an experiment, kind of an angsty setting-of-fire to the internet.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by t0mas88 on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:04PM (#23899158)
When I was in university one of my friends tried to win a bet at a bar by editing a Wikipedia page to add the outrageous claim he made. At first my trust in Wikipedia increased because it got removed in less then an hour. The next day it decreased, because he registered a free blog account, published one post with his outrageous claim in it (and basically nothing else), then edited Wikipedia again adding the blog as a source. That edit stayed up for years. He still tells that story when drinking with friends...
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by WrtCdEvrydy on Monday July 20, 2020 @01:27PM (#23899995)
The thing about is that if you create the source, then link it back to Wikipedia, then reference it in Wikipedia, it will not likely go away...
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by kardos on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:03PM (#23899148)
There is a huge asymmetry between the effort to make an outrageous claim and that to refute one.

> I never, ever got called out.

In Reddit parlance: ain't nobody got time for that

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by dqpb on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:26PM (#23899363)
They also have an inherent information theoretic advantage over non-outrageous claims when consumed by someone who is unable to discern their veracity.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by Buge on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:55PM (#23901802)
Could you expand on that? Are you saying the more outrageous a claim it's the more likely people are to believe it? That itself sounds like an outrageous claim to me, so I would like to see evidence for it.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by dqpb on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @01:54PM (#23909101)
Wikipedia says it nicely:

> the "informational value" of a communicated message depends on the degree to which the content of the message is surprising [0]

Of course, this assumes the message is factual. If it's not factual then the message carries no information (aside from the information it implies about the sender). But, that assumes the receiver is able to discern whether or not the message is factual. If the receiver can't discern that, then it simply appears to be a highly informative message.

False outrageous claims have the further advantage that they are unconstrained by reality. True surprising claims are by nature less likely to occur. That's why they're surprising. But there is no probabilistic throttle on false outrageous claims - one can generate them at whatever frequency they desire.

Thus, false outrageous claims have an information theoretic advantage over true claims because they outnumber true surprising claims, and they appear to be more informative than true unsurprising claims. My argument isn't that the more outrageous a claim is, the more likely people are to believe it, per se. My argument is that outrageous claims get more attention from people because they are less likely, and those who are unable to discern that they are false will simply see them as highly informative.

You could probably argue further that the more frequently an outrageous claim is repeated, the less improbable it will sound. In other words, start with an outrageous claim to get peoples attention, and then repeat it a lot to normalize it and reduce doubt about it's validity.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory)

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by malaya_zemlya on Monday July 20, 2020 @07:12PM (#23902855)
"Another topic is derived from things which are thought to happen but are incredible, because it would never have been thought so, if they had not happened or almost happened. And further, these things are even more likely to be true; for we only believe in that which is, or that which is probable: if then a thing is incredible and not probable, it will be true; for it is not because it is probable and credible that we think it true." Aristotle, Rhetoric 2:23 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...)
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by brlewis on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:53PM (#23899634)
> There is a huge asymmetry between the effort to make an outrageous claim and that to refute one.

Asking "Got evidence for that?" is sufficient refutation for baseless claims.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by closeparen on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:58PM (#23899684)
Make the opposite of your claim with an alt account. Then challenge it for evidence. Now your position wins by default.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by Buge on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:52PM (#23901781)
Just because 1 side doesn't provide evidence doesn't mean the other side is correct. If neither side provides evidence then neither side is necessarily correct.

And in the absence of evidence, generally the simplest (common sense) explanation should be presumed most likely (Hanlon's Razor).

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by kardos on Monday July 20, 2020 @02:14PM (#23900402)
I think this is the part that ain't nobody for time for
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by brlewis on Monday July 20, 2020 @02:59PM (#23900807)
If nobody's going to answer you, your position wins regardless.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by Buge on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:57PM (#23901824)
To prevent a position from winning by default it only requires a very simple reply: ask for evidence.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by Goronmon on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:15PM (#23899267)
I still remember one fake news site that took this to the extreme, in that it linked to a story that flat out didn't exist on the site it linked to.

More common what I see is these sites just link to other articles on the site as a "source" for claims made in more recent articles. You almost never see sources to external sites or resources, its just internal site links all the way down.

Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by nitrogen on Monday July 20, 2020 @12:35PM (#23899458)
Many news sites will do this to keep you on-site instead of bouncing elsewhere.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by Goronmon on Monday July 20, 2020 @04:04PM (#23901337)
But its still common to have links to outside sites and resources within a given article, which you just don't see on these more "alternative" news sites.
Re:Any claim without a URI should be treated as suspicious by dgellow on Monday July 20, 2020 @02:40PM (#23900621)
Almost every time I check a source in a Wikipedia article I get either a 404, or it actually links to the homepage of the target website, or the domain redirects to a YouTube channel, etc.

I arrived to the conclusion that nobody every check the source.

They started using archived articles for some links, that’s already an improvement IMHO.