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Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by mikeryan on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:16AM (#23792348)
I work in this industry and generally agree with your assessment.

However a few things, the general industry perspective went like this:

1. David Katzenberg and Meg Whitman were creating a consumer service targeting a demographic they don't fit in a field they've not worked in. (Consumer apps for a younger demographic)

2. They got 1.8 Billion in funding. For fuck's sake you should get one breakout hit piece of content from that. (Note Apple is struggling a bit with this one too). With the funding, hype and content they've spent on the expectations are going to be pretty damn astronomical, they brought high expectations on themselves.

3. Their entire premise was based on this concept of quick bites of content. With an almost 2 billion dollar war chest the right thing to do would have been to test this theory maybe? Roll out a single show first, backfilled with some news? Get some feedback maybe?

Quibi is led by some serious heavy hitters, so its not spoken much out loud but I think a lot of folks in the industry felt this play was based mostly on hubris and now there's a certain sense of schadenfreude as they start to flail.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by thiagocesar on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:30AM (#23792511)
Apple, Quibi, Amazon are trying to plan the perfect breakout show.

It doesn’t work like that. A lot of the networks’s and Netflix’s breakout shows were not planned to be great. That’s why they just greenlight a bunch of random pilots and see what sticks to the wall.

It’s extremely hard to create hits.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by johnvanommen on Friday July 10, 2020 @09:56PM (#23798770)
> It doesn’t work like that. A lot of the networks’s and Netflix’s breakout shows were not planned to be great. That’s why they just greenlight a bunch of random pilots and see what sticks to the wall.

There's a great interview with Bryan Cranston, where he's talking about the origins of "Breaking Bad."

Basically AMC wanted to compete with HBO, but they didn't have HBO money. So they gave the creators a limited budget but a lot more creative freedom. AMC basically created an environment where creative people who had a passion project could get it off the ground if they were willing to work for less money.

In particular, Vince Gilligan had to go to the mat for Bryan Cranston, because AMC wanted Gilligan to cast someone else.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by pfranz on Saturday July 11, 2020 @01:28AM (#23799770)
This may not be relevant at all to the topic at hand, but they also made concessions for their budget (which HBO likely does, too). The pilot was written for East LA where nearby JPL was where his former founders worked. They shot the series in New Mexico because of the film subsidies. Many shows may not have been green-lit without subsidies.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by baddox on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:06PM (#23793672)
> It doesn’t work like that. A lot of the networks’s and Netflix’s breakout shows were not planned to be great.

That might be true for a lot of breakout shows, but not all of them. House of Cards was arguably Netflix' first breakout show, and Netflix outbid other networks for House of Cards when they were just starting to focus on original programming. That was always painted in showbiz media as a very deliberate plan based on Netflix' data about their users' preferences.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by 1123581321 on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:29PM (#23793983)
We know now that they didn’t really have that data at the time. They just heard Fincher was available and bought his idea unseen for a lot of money so no one else could get to propose to him.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by thiagocesar on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:11PM (#23799137)
And as soon as they got data involved, the plot quality decreased immensely. By season 3, most people had given up on the show already.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by notahacker on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:45PM (#23796891)
Netflix pinning a lot on winning a bidding war for Fincher sound suspiciously like investors placing massively outsized bets on the Dreamworks/Disney guy with the startup savvy CEO being the Next Big Thing in digital media...
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by hardwaregeek on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:40PM (#23797919)
House of Cards was an adaptation of a widely acclaimed British TV show, directed by one of the best Hollywood directors, starring an A-list actor. Plus it probably didn't cost 1.8 billion.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by npunt on Friday July 10, 2020 @08:53PM (#23798390)
Yep, entirely different risk profile. Netflix already had a brand, platform, and customers, and they already offered TV shows and weren't experimenting with a new format. The House of Cards risk was all in execution, not brand, concept, product, talent, etc.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jimmySixDOF on Saturday July 11, 2020 @08:54AM (#23801848)
Actually they are all based on the book by Michael Dobbs (1989) who was the chief of staff for Margaret Thatcher for a few years. I heard him at a book show say he wrote it almost by accident as therapy on a vacation after getting squeezed out of politics.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by enjeyw on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:40PM (#23797413)
The difference is that the sample size for Fincher is a lot larger - 9 of his 10 films have grossed >100mil, so we have very good confidence on his hit rate.

Startup Savvy CEOs have 2, maybe 3 successful companies under their belt, so it's harder to judge how much of their success is due to repeatable factors.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by notahacker on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:07PM (#23797655)
Katzenberg revived Disney and cofounded Dreamworks so he's not exactly short of samples of his ability to produce hit movies. Also getting the scaleup eBay CEO to sort out the internet bit was a bonus...
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by enitihas on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:59PM (#23797591)
House of cards also had the benefit of having a 2 time Oscar winner on the cast.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by root_axis on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:51PM (#23794249)
HBO seems to be able to consistently churn out hits, and not just "hits" but cultural touchtones that ripple throughout pop-culture.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by JadoJodo on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:59PM (#23794346)
But they also have a history of original programming that dates back to the early 90s (and earlier). They've had time to perfect those ripples.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by mkl on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:40PM (#23797926)
Even their first original show Oz (1997) [1] was good. It was clearly experimental and low budget (it's set almost entirely inside a prison so needs very few sets, props, costumes, etc.), but designed around that limitation to focus on the writing and characters. Netflix tried a similar strategy with one of their first original series, Orange Is The New Black.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_(TV_series)

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by dhosek on Saturday July 11, 2020 @12:06AM (#23799369)
More accurately, their first one-hour drama. They produced original content as early as 1976, not including sports programming or comedy showcases.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by strgcmc on Friday July 10, 2020 @02:59PM (#23795024)
There's a not-very visible but nonetheless real amount of planning and "portfolio management" that goes on behind the scenes into choosing which ostensibly "random pilots" to produce. Yes it's kind of a "reptilian" strategy by design (as opposed to "mammalian", focus-on-one-baby-at-a-time), but there is a lot of careful selection done, even if the results look random. More and more, this is a data/ML-driven space, and less and less reliant on human expertise (with human insights but also human blindspots and biases).
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by thiagocesar on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:16PM (#23799167)
Absolutely, but that process is absolutely not data driven.

“Feeling” about a show, and connections to the people running are the two major factors driving those decisions.

Data driven shows tend to be forgettable and ignored by newer generations, who are the ones holding their parents’s credit cards, and therefore, a major audience for hit shows.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by schnevets on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:30PM (#23793217)
The trailer for Apple's new Foundation show reeked of this. All of their heavily marketed content (See, Servant, Greyhound) look like they had the same person doing the trailers.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by redisman on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:53PM (#23799319)
I love foundation and that looked like some generic high budget sci-fi with no indication of what actually makes the story interesting
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by rockostrich on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:39PM (#23793317)
I don't really think Amazon should be included with the other 2. I can't think of anything they've made that was "planned to be a breakout show" and didn't succeed. Their pilot program that they used to run might've been the reason for that. They're also really quick to give up on series that don't do well (which is pretty similar to Netflix).
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by webdestroya on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:57PM (#23793559)
The Grand Tour?
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by notatoad on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:54PM (#23797544)
The Grand Tour maybe hasn't become the cultural touchstone that Top Gear was, but i'm fairly certain it's still getting a ton of views. Every top gear fan i know watches it. It's not getting the buzz a new show would because it's essentially just more Top Gear, but it's definitely being watched.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by dageshi on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:17PM (#23796584)
I think it was pretty successful. I guarantee it got a lot of uk top gear fans subscribed to prime, it did for me.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by death_syn on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:37PM (#23799256)
The Grand Tour and other related shows are the only thing keeping my Prime subscription going.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by reedwolf on Friday July 10, 2020 @02:47PM (#23794882)
>Apple, Quibi, Amazon are trying to plan the perfect breakout show.

Apple is making a series out of Isaac Asimov's Foundation books. [0] :-D

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgbPSA94Rqg

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by bonestamp2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:41PM (#23796849)
I'm sure a lot of us are looking forward to it -- it's good source material, but there's no guarantee that they will pull it off well, or that even if they do a great job, that it will be a hit.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by bawolff on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:27PM (#23797810)
Its pretty terrible source material if your trying to make a mainstream hit.

The foundation is great, but its not your traditional laser-battle big budget mainstrean action-sf thingy.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by hardwaregeek on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:41PM (#23797939)
Yeah the thesis of the books (well until the Mule) is that no one person makes a big difference and it's all due to larger historical forces. Although it'd be hilarious if we follow a hero only for the show to conclude with "welp guess macro effects in galactic trade are really what caused the Empire to fall"
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by Marsymars on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:51PM (#23799312)
Kinda off-topic, but I recently read The Last Astronaut[1], and got the sense that it could make a great movie adaptation, which I almost never get from sci-fi books.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40881567-the-last-astron...

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by mikeryan on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:16PM (#23793799)
Yes but every network in existence does it and is forced into that paradigm. Every premium channel on cable (HBO/Showtime/Starz etc) have had to have a new breakout hit pretty much every year with a pretty small slate of new content - and Quibi has been able to combine this with some formats that actually should work (News, short form comedy etc).
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jrumbut on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:33PM (#23799233)
I think the biggest issue is that there is a deluge of news and short form comedy, and it's free and good quality with a very tolerable amount of advertising on YouTube, Snapchat, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, television, etc, etc.

To succeed in short video they needed something that was beyond a bombshell, something desperately sought after but not forthcoming. Highly polished DeepFake Beatles concerts, with new music written by Paul McCartney. I don't see how you succeed charging for something that qualitatively better than YouTibe. You'd have to at least have new interactive elements (choose your own adventure? I don't know, but something cool).

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by cleansingfire on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:13PM (#23796528)
That's what I find striking. With all their experience & expertise, the major studios spend a tremendous amount of money and consistently produce a surprising number of failures. Personally, I like the wider seeding creatively in general (as you describe with Netflix.)
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by throwaway43234 on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:23PM (#23796659)
And those are just the failures you see! Friends in the industry tell me there are many more failures behind the scenes where shows can get arbitrarily far down the production pipeline only for studio execs to come in and scrap the whole thing.

We're not so different from those 1000 monkeys writing shakespeare :)

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by pfranz on Saturday July 11, 2020 @01:41AM (#23799836)
I have zero idea about Netflix, Amazon, or Disney, but I hear the high turnover in execs at the big network TV studios cause this. The story I often hear is the "new guys" are terratorial and kill off projects of their predecessors so their own projects can succeed.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jgalt212 on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:14PM (#23797193)
Not to be trite, but this was the whole biz plan of Huffington Post, Buzzfeed, et al. The algos will generate the hits. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way. Algos will identify the hits earlier, but they won't "make" them for you.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jeromegv on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:34AM (#23792560)
Yes it's hard. But they got 1.8 billions in funding, and they are trying to get a foot in a crowded space, so expectations are high for them to deliver something. You can't stay long in the TV business with just a couple million paying subscribers
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by bonestamp2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @05:39PM (#23796829)
Amazon already created a pretty perfect show in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel (89% on Rotten Tomatoes). That is going to be really hard for them to top.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by wolco on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:05PM (#23797100)
They should pack up because Amazon made a super hero show and got 89% on rotten tomatoes.

Wait till you see what Disney is offering... you are going to cancel Prime.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by bonestamp2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:20PM (#23797250)
I don't subscribe to prime for the video service, but they've got a couple good shows. My kids like Disney+ but I would cancel Disney+ over HBO any day.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by enitihas on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:15PM (#23797721)
Does Disney have any good comedy series?
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by enitihas on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:58PM (#23797574)
Amazon does have breakout shows. They have won the last 2 emmy for best actress in a comedy TV series.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by peteretep on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:10PM (#23797674)
> Amazon does have breakout shows. They have won the last 2 emmy for best actress in a comedy TV series.

I’m not disputing either of your presented facts, per se, but the first of those is absolutely not implied by the second.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by santoshalper on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:45PM (#23797969)
So much so, in fact, that I have to think it was sarcasm.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jm4 on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:18PM (#23793839)
Their mistake is they're trying to do something that all the other established players could essentially replicate overnight. Their big innovation is the shows are shorter? On top of it, their execution is poor. They put out the standard shows you would see anywhere else except edited so that a single episode turns into a half dozen shorter ones. They pretty much positioned themselves out in no man's land between Netflix and YouTube. They really seem oblivious to what's already out there, who their competition is and where they fit in.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by xmprt on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:45PM (#23797975)
I think if Quibi really wanted to succeed they should have partnered with YouTubers and TikTokers instead of big celebrities. They could spend more on production instead of paying just for the celebrities to be there. And the marketing is free because every online content creator is going to promote their own show.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by flywheel on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:28PM (#23797820)
I don't think their product is really that viable. The amount of setup, process, work, materials and money it takes to produce a 10 minute clip is just about the same amount it takes to produce a 30 minute episode.

I've enjoyed some short-form episodic content on Amazon before, but it always left me feeling short-changed, and wishing the episodes were 30 minutes. It was too quick to go through the entire series and then it's done, I have to search for more content that is high quality, which is few and far between. Maybe it's for people with ADD who can't follow a plot longer than 10 minutes long?

Quibi is relying on a gimmick, and one that isn't even difficult to copy and has been done before. I've so far not heard of any reason that would compel me to spend my time on their site when there's so much other content out there.

I'm also not sure why anyone would want Meg Whitman on board at a company like this, unless she's somehow responsible for bringing some of that 1.8 Billion in funding, and even then she should only be on the board, not in the C suite.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by sixothree on Friday July 10, 2020 @02:29PM (#23794694)
I remember the early days of podcasts going commercial the group think was that they should be short. I believe companies like Discovery put out podcasts that were maybe 4 minutes tops. That thinking was just as oblivious.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by dhosek on Saturday July 11, 2020 @12:09AM (#23799389)
I remember Merlin Mann had a blog post a decade or so ago where he considered Garrison Keillor's The Writer's Almanac the perfect podcast in that each episode was five minutes and it came out daily.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by rdlecler1 on Friday July 10, 2020 @07:54PM (#23798027)
I never understood the fascination with Meg Whitman. The PayPal acquisition did not generate nearly as much value as it could and eBay is terrible, could have been what Amazon is today. I see Meg as greatly benefitting from a rising tide, not great leadership. Maybe her lieutenants have a different take but this is what I see from the outside.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by johnvanommen on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:00PM (#23798795)
> I see Meg as greatly benefitting from a rising tide, not great leadership. Maybe her lieutenants have a different take but this is what I see from the outside.

I worked at HPE, when Whitman was CEO.

The impression I got, was that she's a bit of a wizard when it comes to finance.

For instance, the organization that I was a part of, we lost a pile of money. But despite that, HPE was able to sell the org off to SuSE.

IE, if Whitman wasn't a wizard, the entire venture may have been a 100% loss. But she was able to flip that organization to another buyer.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by rdlecler1 on Saturday July 11, 2020 @11:18AM (#23802781)
IMHO That does’t paint a picture of a tech leader and innovator — maybe a fantastic CFO.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by anoraca on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:38PM (#23795469)
"For All Mankind" is an absolutely amazing show from Apple. Alternate history of if Russia got to the moon first. Lots of historical footage (sometimes augmented). I loved watching it. Maybe too niche for a breakout hit but it is extremely good.
Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by KallDrexx on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:36AM (#23792592)
That's easy to say in hindsight, but I think if the pandemic wouldn't really happen there's a good chance their conversion would be even higher. Their whole business model is meant for consumers who are on the go with short time bursts, which is exactly the opposite of what we have today.

It very well could be that their shortage of content wouldn't have been as big of a deal because their ideal users weren't binging on their stuff, just watching while on a train or lunch break.

I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes, but it does feel like this aspect is missing in a lot of the bandwagon criticisms of the service.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by kevstev on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:51PM (#23793477)
This does not resonate with me- you have masses of people who now have tons of free time on their hands, and in general the trend is towards shorter formats of entertainment- especially for the demographic they are targeting.

You are really telling me that people are too busy watching 2 hour documentaries or reading books to load up Quibi for a quick hit? I don't buy this at all. We don't still have lunch breaks?

I know this is kind of the "insider narrative" on this (I actually bought my house from someone fairly high up that relocated to the west coast to work there) but this really rings hollow. After reading some of Katzenburg's comments in an article a few months ago where he said "I blame everything that has gone wrong on Coronavirus. Everything." This is not a successful approach to thinking about why your product isn't getting the market fit you thought it would. Then throw in some highly annoyed comments when it was retorted that Tik Tok is thriving with "its comparing apples to submarines." With thinking like that I don't think they stand a chance really.

Personally I can not imagine a better time to launch a video platform than the onset of a pandemic where people are stuck inside with little else to do aside from consume content.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by mikeryan on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:13PM (#23793769)
If the content was good folks would watch it, Whether in quick bites or not.

Even then, adjusting to the new reality and repackaging 10 minute episodes of a show into 30-60 minute episodes could likely be done in an editors suite in a few weeks.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by bsder on Friday July 10, 2020 @08:33PM (#23798256)
> If the content was good folks would watch it, Whether in quick bites or not.

Agreed. "Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog" anyone?

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by jonny_eh on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:10PM (#23792980)
> with short time bursts

The problem is that the short time bursts are highly variable, but they specifically target 10 minutes. That's why people scroll through twitter or instagram, it fills the void, no matter how long it is.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by SilasX on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:13PM (#23793755)
Right, that was my intuition as well. Ten minutes is still too long for the use case that they’re targeting, of people on the go who want to fill in time looking at their phone. A ten-minute short still requires a level of concentration (and absence of interruptions) not suited for that scenario. Social media is still a lot better for that, as is tiktok’s far lower video length.

And, yes, I know it sounds kind of bizarre to ridicule a ten-minute short as “too long”. Fortunately, the public is (still, for now) absolutely willing to watch productions that take a bigger time and attention investment. It’s just, they want to watch it at home, possibly with others, on a bigscreen. Quibi deliberately avoided that with the “mobile only” constraint that they’re now reversing.

Edit: sorry for overusing “still”.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by hakfoo on Saturday July 11, 2020 @03:42PM (#23805221)
I feel like their target demographic had to be based on public-transit commuters.

Who else has: * 10 minute+ but less than 22-30 minute "full TV show" long uninterrupted breaks * Where their phone is the primary connectivity device * Predictably available?

If I'm at home, I have the PC, the TV, any number of better ways to enjoy content. If I'm in a car I'm driving, I can't watch video. If I'm on the toilet or a lunch break, I may not have 10 uninterrupted minutes.

I wonder if in 20 years, we'll see it on self-driving cars as a similar fit. "Your estimated trip time is 17 minutes, here are some recommendations of programming for the dashboard screen."

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by nwsm on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:32PM (#23797353)
Thanks for the industry insight. 1 and 2 make sense from an outsider's POV.

For 3, what would you envision for this test, other than normal market research / focus groups that they likely conducted? Surely you shouldn't launch the Quibi brand with just one show if the goal is a full-fledged streaming platform.

Re:Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after the... by phodo on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:35PM (#23798984)
Lessons from segway.