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Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by hibikir on Monday June 22, 2020 @10:16AM (#23600407)
Money not being an issue can still happen: See Valve, which have a money printing machine in Steam, along with a few long living, lucrative games. Work on Half Life 3 never really stopped , and we had a 13 year wait between Half Life Alyx and Half Life 2, episode 2. Sources say that the internal standards for a Half Life 3 are so high, it led to many restarts and a lot of work being thrown away.

But the real reason we don't have games that run as long as Deus Ex is that the cost of reworking what was already there have exploded since those days. If you are predicting a 3 year release cycle(not unheard of to this day at large publishers), and you are delayed by 2 extra years, the hardware you are targeting is different, and the amount of art you have to upgrade or completely remake is crazy compared to Deus Ex. With teams being far larger than they were to meet a 3 year plan, marshaling a modern AAA game team to rework large parts of a game has little to do with managing to do the same with a team from the late 20th century. A linear increase in team size gets you a geometric increase in coordination costs.

That said, we still have small teams that might work on a game for a very long time, but they have to aim far lower technically, or in scope. You can make a beautiful, shorter game with a small team, like Outer Wilds. You can also make a 2d game, and tweak your game to perfection, like Stardew Valley. At those sizes, saying "when it's done", and letting yourself change direction and scope is fine. But try that with the Red Dead Redemption 2 team, trying to be at the forefront of everything. Without a far more rigid plan, you can go into a Duke Nukem Forever spiral (and DNF was a far smaller team!)

Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by Cthulhu_ on Monday June 22, 2020 @11:01AM (#23600977)
An important note with specifically Stardew Valley and a lot of the indie games coming out nowadays is that they release early; they work for up to a year, then release the game in Early Access to start the flow of money coming in so that they can both keep working on the game and get a lot of instant feedback.

I don't think that approach would work well with story-driven games, but for e.g. Stardew Valley and a lot of the infinite gameplay indie games being made nowadays it's ideal. Also, they will add features all the time, so people will come back to them on a regular basis (e.g. Factorio, KSP).

Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by detaro on Monday June 22, 2020 @11:03AM (#23600998)
Some story driven games do it through chapters, more or less finishing a first section of the game that's only tweaked by later updates.
Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by golergka on Monday June 22, 2020 @11:51AM (#23601569)
Game graphics standard were changing much more rapidly back then. Games released in 1995 and 2000 look much more different than games from 2015 and 2020.
Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by Wohlf on Monday June 22, 2020 @12:53PM (#23602499)
Couldn't a few artists and level designers in 1995-2000 crank out a whole lot more finished products than ones in 2015-2020 though? Seems like you need entire teams to make one level in modern games.
Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by deelowe on Monday June 22, 2020 @01:34PM (#23603081)
I guess it depends on the game, but just looking at a couple of AAA titles, the difference is staggering:

- Half Life -> https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/half-life/credits

- Horizon Zero Dawn -> https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/horizon-zero-da...

Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by ohyes on Monday June 22, 2020 @04:46PM (#23606392)
In 1995 individuals would crank out doom WADs and marathon maps like it was nothing. 2.5D was a sweet spot for ease of making something. As a tween with no artistic skill and the family computer I could make maps and mods and texture stuff.

Things got more difficult when everything became legitimate 3D because of unreal and quake. It still happened but IMO was a much steeper curve.

Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by falcor84 on Monday June 22, 2020 @03:37PM (#23605195)
>A linear increase in team size gets you a geometric increase in coordination costs.

You mean quadratic, no?

Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by elcomet on Monday June 22, 2020 @05:57PM (#23607337)
Geometric means exponential so it's not the same as quadratic (which means squared).
Re:Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game by falcor84 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:41AM (#23639982)
That is my point, coordination costs are commonly modeled quadratically - as the number of edges in a fully-connected graph being a quadratic function of the number of nodes.