I hope it does. But I wonder if a very bad economic crisis (that some say started in 2008 and we never truly recovered from) may cause a similar wave of xenophobia and civil unrest in Canada as we now see happening in the U.S. I know Canada is a very different country than the U.S and much less prone to massive civil unrest, but all and all it's not that much different than countries like UK, Germany, France etc - who are experiencing their own brand of populism and growing xenophobia now.

I don't think same would happen in Canada. What US lawmakers have done, is to put a tap on green card basis on the country of origin. Indians on H1B wouldn't get their green card, in their life time, period. If there were no Indians waiting for green card, it wouldn't have been a big issue. It is by design. Indians are new B

Yeah, right, you apparently do not remember Quebec unrests, when they wanted to secede.

People in Canada aren't making US salaries. Most people want to go to the US for the money.

Well it looks like US is not an option anymore.

Canada on the other hand gives you PR on entry if you're skilled enough.

Money doesn't matter if it becomes an eternal struggle or impossible to maintain legal status.

One have to put things in prerspective. It took 40-50 years for the silicon valley to become what is is today. Once there are enough tech presence in Canada, tech situation would improve. There would be ample amount of tech folks, and new innovations would come along. New companies would be founded and things would be at par, or even better. Anyhow I see, US heading towards political turmoil/instability.

A lot of immigrants want career opportunities, a reasonable path to permanent residence and/or citizenship, and a good environment for their family.

#1 could change, some tech companies have started to realize they can offer more remote jobs and save money while offering salaries that are still very competitive to anyone not living in the Bay Area. #2 was already problematic before Trump. #3 is often better outside the US.

That makes Canada even more attractive to tech companies because they can save money. Canadian salaries and living standards are still better than many other countries'.

Tech labor has historically cheaper than in the US. It would have been nice to see more Canadian tech success stories at 1/10 the number that have occurred in SV alone. There must be some other variables that explain the difference.

I think most Canadians working in the US for tech companies would be on a TN visa, which is not being suspended according to the Globe and Mail [0]. Internships would be significantly affected though, since they go on a J1 visa so it could help the new grad pipeline for Canadian tech companies.

[0] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-tr...

I think the implication of OP is not that fewer Canadians would be in the US (though I'd point out that a lot of us Canadians are on H-1Bs too), but that immigrants from other countries could go to Canada and work from a satellite office in the same time zone.

TN allows for no immigration intent and can be rescinded any time you cross at the whims of the border guard. Most US companies will transition a Canadian to an H1-B and then a green card as quickly as feasible.

Tech salaries are not even close. Only Toronto and Vancouver would be attractive options for tech workers, both cities have a housing problem.

Montreal needs to step up with their salaries.

Montreal is super cheap though, but has the language issue.

Wouldn't TN visas be a workaround?

TN is for Canadian citizens working in the US. The opportunity for Canada is about (mostly Indian but other nationalities too) offering easy visas to skilled professionals so US tech companies can relocate them (or they can move independently) to Canada and not have to deal with the broken US system.

How does the TN circumvent in this situation legally ?

The TN visa comes from a treaty between the US, Canada and Mexico; it is not part of the immigration law that gives us the H1-B.

I have no specific knowledge of the wording of the treaty, but it seems highly likely that the leader of any of the 3 countries could suspend the visa.

A cousin of mine used to do staffing for highly specialized roles in the auto industry and the TN was very important in the Detroit/Windsor metro area. I don't think it is used in tech anywhere near as much as it is used elsewhere; since it is clear that the current administration is just looking for ways to give the tech industry a hard time, it seems unlikely that TN would be a target.

On the other hand, the method for getting a TN visa is very much different than other visas. A Mexican citizen coming into the US has a fair amount of advanced paperwork required but otherwise has almost no problem. A Canadian citizen just shows up at the border with a job offer, a detailed description of the job and proof of the education requirements. The immigration officer makes the determination on the spot and they either walk through or turn around! The administration could quietly issue guidance to immigration officers about how strict they need to be, and you might end up with very similar effects without all the publicity of an executive order.

Not happening.

They all eventually come back to USA after gaining a foothold in Canada. TN Visas. Majority of TN Visa users are immigrants into Canada.

This sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. Do you have any citation to back up these claims?

>For the lakhs in India who aspire for an H1B visa, the news is disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. The options of Canada and Australia, which once seemed alternatives to the American dream, are also more distant now, given the dismal global economic scenario. One young couple, on a temporary visa in the US which will expire soon, had invested in acquiring a Permanent Residence (PR) in neighbouring Canada, but they are now unsure of that too.

[1]https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/06/22/american-dream-...

Over 50% of Toronto, at least, is born outside of Canada and even then immigrants were overrepresented in my CS cohort at Waterloo in 2014.

So it seems plausible -- but these aren't people cynically exploiting Canada as a hop on the way to the US, they're people who were born outside Canada but moved to Canada as children and grew up Canadian.

Can you take some of the Bay Area homeless as well, or is it only acceptable to place economic externalities Stateside?

Parent commenter's never been to the skid row of Vancouver. Land prices is the fucked thing, and they're plenty fucked in Canada, too.

> Parent commenter's

Is that my post or my parent's post? Fwiw I'm well aware of Canada's property bubble but I'm sure that has more to do with foreign capital outflows than local talent being pushed out the market.