Well latest MacBooks also have internal clips that you need suction cups placed in exact locations to release. I've given up on fixing them.

You'd almost think they want you to walk into one of their stores so their salespeople have chance at trying to upsell you to their latest model.

Anecdata: in 12 years of owning Macs I personally have never had this experience. In fact they usually went out of their way to provide solutions to extend the hardware lifetime as much as possible.

Anecdata in return: I've had the exact opposite, macbook air 2013 issue with a borked keyboard, clearly a manufacturing defect and all they could do is sell me a new one, repairing the old one (which should have been free of charge no matter what the warranty situation) would cost more than it was worth.

My solution: (1) screw Apple, not buying their hardware ever again and (2) use a USB keyboard.

Walking past all the shiny new electronics to the help desk way at the back is enough of a sales tactic for them. there's a reason all Apple stores have that layout, they don't need to train their techs in sales as well.

Strasbourg's Apple store has two distinct "front" an d "back" entries and two distinct half-floors that communicate by a couple of steps and are separated by a big wall, respectively for the sales side and the support side. Note that the "back" one isn't really "back", it's more like opening towards a mall instead of outside.

I also find these very useful, but I have some that wore down and start stripping the screws.

I'd like to find a set that isn't prone to wear, unless that is simply a fact of life. I'm wondering if I was just being too cheap when I bought my first set.

It's not a fact of life, it's due to poorly made screwdrivers/bits. Unfortunately, it's getting more difficult to find, or at least be certain of the quality of tools. You can only really know that it's a good tool after getting a lot of use out of it. But by then that particular tool may no longer be sold, or it may not be manufactured the same way, or even in the same factory. So any verified reviews may be out of date.

I've had good luck with the iFixIt kits, but I haven't had to use them often enough that wear might be a real issue, so perhaps I just haven't seen it.

I bought this set a year ago and have been very happy with them. The heads/bits seem very solid hard steel. Not the soft ones that you often get. Comes with all the weird pentalobe etc bits for Apple and Nintendo etc.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0728BJ7TH/

I've had good luck with Wiha tools.

I second this. I had an ifixit set and then got this wiha set: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JQ753W8/. I ended up giving away the ifixit ones because the wiha quality was notably superior.

Seconded. It's definitely worth spending some extra money on a reputable brand, rather than a generic low quality product with a meaningless name stamped on the box. For screwdrivers I stick with PB Swiss.

I second the recommendation for the iFixit screwdriver sets, the Mako is great for precision/smaller things, and the Manta is great as more of a general purpose set. I use the Manta all the time for general household applications. The other awesome part is the lid can double as a parts tray. I do with the Manta had more hex drivers, but I have a separate set of those as well.

Good point. One of my sets was of noticeably poor quality compared to the others. For bits I was using frequently, I'd try to find a tools seller with a brand to protect (probably not on Amazon, with their SKU commingling).

> a $10-$20 set

Which renders the whole notion of a "security screw" a joke. So why do companies persist in using them?

They use security screws to deter passer-by from unscrewing the screws. It's very easy to fashion something that will unscrew a flat or Philips head screw while security screw basically require the right screwdriver. Useful in elevators, bathrooms, or anywhere the public might be a nuisance.

This also prevents people from unscrewing their Macbook and messing something up then coming into the store and complaining. If you are willing to go out of your way to get the right screwdriver, you probably know what you are doing inside of the laptop.

> This also prevents people from unscrewing their Macbook and messing something up then coming into the store and complaining.

Right. Because this happens all the time with laptops that use regular screws, and there is no way to tell if the damage has been caused by someone opening up the machine and destroying something.

There is no good reason for keeping people away from the insides of the computer they paid (a fortune) for, and yet Apple gets away with it.

If you have a philips screw, get a philips driver. If you have a tri-wing screw, get a tri-wing driver. Sure the latter aren’t as common, but they’re readily available from countless online stores. Unless your Government has outlawed certain types of driver, it’s absurd to say that one screw type locks you out more than the other.

It's not absurd. Just because it's available somewhere doesn't mean it's easy to find. Also you're having your arm twisted to purchase something that will probably be used very little elsewhere in your life. Why not just use the more common screw and make things a bit easier?!

It's almost like a company using an uncommon electrical plug on their power cable, and expecting everyone to buy an adapter to use it. People would be outraged.

My decking was installed with a somewhat uncommon drill bit that isn’t in many people’s household toolkits. Is my decking user hostile?

If there is a valid mechanical/electrical/physical reason why they would choose one fixing over the other, then fair enough - sometimes the more esoteric product can be the correct or only one for the job. If they're just doing it for the sake of making it harder to work with, then, by definition, it's user hostile.

What screw head did they use?

Square. You won’t find square bits in any supermarket or gas station store. But they’re readily available in hardware stores.

Similarly, the screwdriver bits needed to open a MacBook are readily available from computer repair parts stores.

Seems perfectly analogous to me.

Those are Robertson-bit screws, and are ubiquitous here in Canada. (Also a Canadian invention, don'tcha know.) https://www.robertsonscrew.com/

They work great with a power driver, such as you'd want for putting in a deck or fence, so 2-3" deck screws are like my version of duct tape around the house.

It’s just a small star shaped screw IIRC but nothing specific to Apple; other small electronics use these too.

BTW, I wish manufacturers would stop using Philips screws. Hex or Torx is so much better design.

Depends on the application, Torx doesn't cam out for example which in some cases could be undesirable.

I don't see why cam out should be ever desirable. Use torque wrench if necessary. Meanwhile, with Philips this turns out: screw is fastened with cam out torque ... some time later ... due to dirt, rust, etc. it now requires slightly more torque to unfasten, but that is higher than cam out! So now you have to wrestle to push driver stronger, each failed attempt wears screw more, and of course you can hurt yourself when it cams out when pushing strongly.

I agree that cam out is not usually desirable, however it could be used as a safety mechanism against excessive torque for the material being screwed into (although it's probably not the best way to implement a safety measure).

> Useful in elevators, bathrooms, or anywhere the public might be a nuisance.

True, but I'm not in the habit of randomly picking a laptop off of someone else's desk and disassembling it.

Well, at my Alma Mater in Rome I heard the story that all machines in the “internet lab” (we’re talking ‘00s here) had their RAMs ripped out and replaced with older and smaller sizes, as well as all the CPUs.

Ideally admins should have chained and locked them, but a weird driver would have reduced the incidence of the problem

Would it though? They already had matching, smaller size, RAM modules. If they went this far, they could definitely get the proper tools as well.

It’s just a screw which is better for machines. They don’t really care if you can open it or not, since it’s hard enough with any screw. But they do care if assembly robot makes less mistakes.

Torx works fine for machines. As do hex heads. This is just a ploy.

Torx is mechanically superior to hex. I would expect an expensive laptop to have mechanically superior fastenings.

https://rtstools.com/why-torx-bolts-are-better-than-hex-bolt...

A bolt for a laptop is just a bolt. The kind of mechanical superiority that you'd get out of using Tor-x vs a hex head is not something that would make your expensive laptop any better. Simple Philips heads would be fine, hex heads are more than good enough and Tor-x likely overkill. They do look nice though.

I for one am very glad that my father-in-law doesn’t have the screwdriver that would open his MacBook. Otherwise it would already be broken.

One person’s “ploy” is another person’s “essential feature”.

Well, maybe he'd learn something useful, maybe not. But it is his MacBook and regardless of whether you are glad about it or not he should be able to do with it as he pleases. Clearly, other laptop manufacturers survive just fine using normal screws. Treating computers as though they are disposable appliances that can not be repaired, in fact constructing them in that way on purpose is neither desirable nor does it make sense from an ownership and an ecological perspective, even if there are edge cases where it is beneficial.

But he can do as he pleases. He can go on eBay or amazon and buy the correct driver.

Your logic seems to be that if you can’t open a device with tools available at your local gas station store, it’s user hostile?

And it’s quite egotistical and “in the bubble” to say that opening your devices is something everyone should be able to stumble into. If you applied that logic to everything we own, nobody would have any time to do anything else.

> And it’s quite egotistical and “in the bubble” to say that opening your devices is something everyone should be able to stumble into.

That makes no sense. It is selfish to have a right to open a device you have purchased?

> If you applied that logic to everything we own, nobody would have any time to do anything else.

Having a right to open your own device does not mean you are required to do so nor do you have to spend all your time opening the devices around your house. It is also beneficial in the sense that if you are not willing to open your own device you can go to a third party you trust to open it without requiring the manufacturers permission.

I agree with everything you said. You seem to be arguing against someone else, not with what I wrote.

Where I don’t agree is your inference that using a less common but still readily available screw head means you have “no right” to open your device.

Minor inconveniences are not the same as a loss of rights, and it’s astonishing that anyone would try to conflate the two.

My apologies for misinterpreting what you intended to say.

> Minor inconveniences are not the same as a loss of rights, and it’s astonishing that anyone would try to conflate the two.

They are not entirely the same, but a world with less standards (that are high quality and open) seems like a better place. I enjoy being able to use USB ubiquitously. If every company had their own screw head standards that seems objectively worse. Apple's product design definitely feels like they want it to be as difficult as possible to open.

I am sure it stops a significant portion of people opening them still. I'd really want to take one apart before going through the hassle of buying special tools.

Kinda like how companies makes unsubscribing hard, not impossible.

If you just wanna disassemble the laptop, any screwdriver that fits is good

Once you unscrewed it you can replace the screws

People don't do it because are afraid of voiding the warranty or because just don't care

«$10-$20 set of as many different security screw bits»

The one I own: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0023QTESS And I have used almost 1/3rd of the bits. I don't think I have ever seen a set more complete than this one.

I have that exact same kit and I love it. The little plastic fingers that hold the bits to the lid break pretty easily so I've removed the whole top tray and put the bits in some of these. https://www.amazon.com/10pcs-Holes-Screwdriver-Holder-Storag...

I'm debating on removing the bottom tray and 3d printing a new one to hold even more bits.

meh.

as a thinkpad user, i almost always used any random screwdriver i had around, as long as it fitted.

Thinkpads are the rare exception. Most of (all of?) the screws are simple Phillips, and the manual provides good instructions on how to disassemble. I've worked on other laptops from other manufacturers; IIRC, I had a Toshiba with Torx screws. No manual, and it also took me forever to find the last two screws as one had a rubber stopper glued over it (that you had to half destroy to get out) and the other had a sticker placed over it.

MBPs have the weird "pentalobe" screws, AIUI.

ThinkPads are historically some of the most repairable laptops. They are essentially designed to be taken apart with a single Phillips screwdriver and no special tools.

Not any more. T470+ are horrible and they’ve started using glue in some of the newer X1’s apparently. I haven’t been blessed with a broken one yet though which is probably good.

That’s why I said essentially. They could do better, as could most in the industry. Competition is usually good in this regard for most laptops. The thinner they are, the less easy the repair can be.

That, and the service manual is online.

Even when asking about a part that was no longer available from them, I received a message from them about what to look for on EBay.

Most HP's and Dell's I've worked on were similarly simple to repair. Thinkpads are particularly good however :)

And a magnetic bowl! So handy.