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Re:GDPR guide for developers by BeniBoy on Thursday June 18, 2020 @03:50AM (#23560790)
I think the "Prepare for the exercise of people’s rights" part is critical.

If you are a software architect, you need to ask yourself: can I delete a single user data across all my infra easily? If not, you might be in trouble a couple a year later when you are hit with thousands of deletion request and technically can't honor them.

Another side of tech debt I guess!

Re:GDPR guide for developers by moksly on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:09AM (#23560888)
You can answer no to that and still be GDPR compliant. You’re allowed to save personal information that is critical to your business. People can’t buy stuff from you and demand you have their payment data deleted before you charge them, or right after they do a charge back of money paid to you for instance.

It’s probably healthy to design systems that are build to let people manage their own data though. I think people will slowly start to expect that of you in the future as more and more solutions start to offer it.

In the public sector of Denmark we give people access to all their health data. When I have blood drawn for analysis (not English and I don’t know what it’s called sorry) I can log in and see the results exactly like the doctor sees them. When I’ve been to a doctors consultant and she’s written stuff in my journal I can log in and read it. People are going to want that stuff once they get used to it.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by outadoc on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:24AM (#23560982)
You can answer no to that if you only store information that you legally have to keep.

Chances are, that's not the case.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by user5994461 on Thursday June 18, 2020 @07:15AM (#23561968)
Companies legally have to keep a ton of information as soon as they process any payment. High chances are your company gets money from its customers so it can keep all kind of information almost indefinitely.

The only notable exception is ad business because "users" are not customers and do not enter any transactions.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by remus on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:17AM (#23561309)
There's actually 6 lawful bases for processing data https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... though deciding which is applicable in a given situation is not straightforward.

The legal basis is actually quite broad. For example, most companies need to keep records for accounting purposes for several years which would count as a lawful basis. Another example would be keeping client data in case you need to protect yourself against potential future litigation e.g. a gym may need to protect themselves against personal injury claims (otherwise you could injure yourself, ask them to delete the records and then sue them).

Re:GDPR guide for developers by closeparen on Thursday June 18, 2020 @01:18PM (#23565277)
As the chart explains, only public interest and legal requirement trump the right to erasure. Legitimate interest does not.

A legal requirement is "you shall retain these data for N years or face prison time" not "this might be helpful in a lawsuit"

Re:GDPR guide for developers by BeniBoy on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:13AM (#23560908)
You are right. The rights of the user depend on the legal basis you choose.

This is covered here[1]

Basically:

* The right to object is not applicable if your processing is based on contract, legal obligation or protection of vital interest

* The right to erasure is not applicable in case of a legal obligation or public interest

[1]https://github.com/LINCnil/GDPR-Developer-Guide/blob/master/...

Re:GDPR guide for developers by ArnoVW on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:37AM (#23561069)
.. and since one is obliged to keep 10 years of history for tax auditing reaons, the whole point becomes moot.

Yes, you can ask that your avatar image be removed. But they can easily claim that your name, address, bank account number are needed for tax auditing and Know Your Customer purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

Re:GDPR guide for developers by njb311 on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:04AM (#23563712)
I wouldn’t say the _whole point_ becomes moot. As you have to have a legal basis for each type of data that you are storing or processing, relying on different legal bases can add complexity to the problem of a deletion request. Just because you have to retain some information does not give a free pass to retain everything.

Also, remember that data subjects have a right to limit the purposes for which their data is used – systems need to be able to cope with that.

This is where a well thought-out and documented approach to personal information makes everything easier, for internal users of that data too. For legacy systems it can be a nightmare because nobody seemed to care, but with a clean sheet, _why wouldn’t you_ address data protection and privacy from the outset?

Re:GDPR guide for developers by vertex-four on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:49AM (#23561124)
Sure, but only if you you then never process that data for reasons not covered by your legal basis and privacy policy. It's not only the collection of data that is covered by the GDPR - it's any processing as well.

Easiest way to do this is probably to duplicate data into another table for tax audit purposes, that your "normal" applications have no permission to read. Then you can delete everything your application can access and still keep legal records.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by abraae on Thursday June 18, 2020 @04:55AM (#23561173)
One thing about GDPR that I've never heard answered convincingly - when a user requests deletion of all of their personal data, does that include also any history of the deletion request itself?
Re:GDPR guide for developers by motdiem on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:12AM (#23561267)
My understanding is keeping the deletion requests fullfills a legitimate business interest, so no -I would not delete the request. What we do is we keep those in a separate system, since the user records themselves (in my app, crm, etc) would be removed. That system is also how we "prove" that we executed the deletion requests in a timely manner
Re:GDPR guide for developers by jayelbe on Thursday June 18, 2020 @06:29AM (#23561728)
This all depends on what the legal basis for you processing personal data is in the first place.

There are several possible legal bases for processing personal data and legitimate interests is one; if legitimate interests wasn't your reason for processing personal data in the first place, then you couldn't rely on it later.

If legitimate interests were the basis for your processing, and a person requested their data be deleted, you have to be able to demonstrate that your legitimate interest overrides their rights. You should probably also demonstrate there aren't other steps you could reasonably take, eg partially deleting or anonymising the data.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by tzs on Thursday June 18, 2020 @01:20PM (#23565295)
Keeping the deletion request itself may actually be necessary to ensure that after you delete the requested data it stays deleted.

I didn't save the link but at least one country's privacy regulator has said that when processing a deletion request you do not have to go through all your backups and remove the data from them too.

If you ever have to do a restore from those backups you will need to re-apply past deletion requests to the restored data before you start using it.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by BeniBoy on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:03AM (#23561217)
It's a good question and I don't thing any DPA has said anything specifically on this issue. But if your logs contains personnal data related to the user which made the deletion request, you might be in trouble. And personnal data has a very broad definition.

But honestly this is a very minor point, if that's what is keeping you up at night, you are amongst the most compliant ones !

Re:GDPR guide for developers by piokoch on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:51AM (#23561520)
Yes, you can do even more, you can put all those user data to some offline storage as long as you can justify that you need this (which is very often the case).

GDPR is mostly about processing user data, not storing them. So user can execute "right to be forgotten", so the data will not be accessible in any way and you are not allowed to process them, however you have full right to keep those data if you believe that this user might show up five years later and try to sue you for a, say, undelivered order, etc.

In that particular case you need to be able to prove that user wanted to delete the data. Otherwise user might sue you that you've deleted those data without agreement and caused some business losses in that way.

Someone third party might also show up and accuse you that you deleted data as a part of conspiracy with the user (think of angry former wives/husbands).

Re:GDPR guide for developers by M2Ys4U on Thursday June 18, 2020 @07:52AM (#23562183)
>GDPR is mostly about processing user data, not storing them.

Storage is considered as processing.

But yes, you're right that the Right to Erasure is not absolute.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by izacus on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:15AM (#23561293)
As everything with GDPR the question is - do you need that data for your operations? E.g. if you need to keep it to inform your infrastructure to not store the data anymore, then yes, you can. If you don't need to keep it, then no.

If you use it to block the user from using your service or punish them in some other way, that might be very problematic in legal sense.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by keerthiko on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:14AM (#23561289)
The focus of the spirit of GDPR is PII at its core. Communications with the user such as email exchanges, transaction records, etc are fine to preserve as long as all PII have been scrubbed and are dissociated from the user.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by Fradow on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:52AM (#23561524)
To be more precise, the focus of the spirit of GDPR is processing of personal data.

When you receive a deletion request, you must delete the data and stop using it from anywhere you don't have a legitimate reason to continue processing it under one of the reasons for processing personal data without user consent.

Which is easier said than done, because it's against general development practice of having a single copy of any data that you use everywhere without much checking. Instead, you have to either check a flag before using data (do I have consent? Has it been revoked?), or keep several copies of the same data for distinct use (for example, one copy for your app, one copy for legal reasons). The first approach helps you to be able to prove consent. The second approach helps you when you need to archive data past its retention date.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by closeparen on Thursday June 18, 2020 @01:04PM (#23565136)
GDPR personal data is any record pertaining to an individual. That definitely includes transactions and communications.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by jayelbe on Thursday June 18, 2020 @06:22AM (#23561679)
This is completely meaningless. PII as a term from US legislation and has nothing to do with GDPR.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by M2Ys4U on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:32AM (#23561404)
Not "PII", personal data.

PII is a US legal term and means precisely nothing in the context of the GDPR.

Re:GDPR guide for developers by abraae on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:41AM (#23561448)
If you remove PII, then whatever you are left with is no longer personal data.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by valesco on Thursday June 18, 2020 @06:59AM (#23561886)
No, the GDPR's definition is broader and has been in use in EU privacy regulations for a decade prior. It's every piece of information that can be linked to an individual, even indirectly.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by abraae on Thursday June 18, 2020 @08:07PM (#23569574)
Exactly - when you remove all PII, you are left only with data that cannot be linked to the individual, even indirectly.
Re:GDPR guide for developers by lenlorijn on Thursday June 18, 2020 @05:51AM (#23561518)
It means remove any data that identifies the individual. So saving data that is not identifying is fine, saving a record of there having been a request is also fine, saving identifying that is part of the request is not fine.

There are also limits placed on this by other laws. For example tax agencies often require companies keep sales records for multiple years. A request for deletion doesn't remove all invoices from sales records with their name on it. I imagine there are more examples, but I think it gives a good indication that GDPR is not where the buck always stops.