> 5) Work friends are NOT friends.

I have made some extremely good friends through work, including the individual who, outside my family, is the person who I still see that I have known the longest in my life (we started our new jobs at the same company on the same day, approx 35 years ago).

The mistake is when your colleagues become your only friends. Changing jobs can see you lose your entire 'support network'. Always take the time to maintain friends outside your current work.

That's a good point.

Here's an important corollary:

Don't shit where you eat.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/don%27t_shit_where_you_eat

That is, avoid getting into romantic relationships with people at work. And for God's sake don't think of work as a cruising ground for members of the appropriate sex(es).

Sure, there's a chance both of you might simultaneously be two of the lucky ones for whom everything always goes perfectly, without any hitches or conflicts. But back in the real world, relationships have problems, and jobs have problems, and when one of those problems inevitably occurs in one domain, it sucks if it dominos over into the other domain.

In the ideal world, we'd all be eternally happy with our personal relationships, and eternally happy with our jobs. But if you suddenly become unhappy with one for some reason, it really sucks if you also lose the other because of it.

And also remember what Freewheelin' Franklin of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers said:

"Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETBgAc0WoAEEZMF.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fabulous_Furry_Freak_Broth...

> two of the lucky ones

I honestly think there's a huge amount of survivor bias in this mindset. I'm in my thirties and I know more married couples who met at work than those who didn't meet at work. And the ones who didn't meet at work met at school. Even had two senior managers at my first job break up their marriages (both with kids) to get together. As far as I know they got married and are still happily together.

I think you just hear a lot more of the wild stories of the ones that go wrong.

The thing is, most romantic relationships fail. If it’s someone you met online or even a friend of a friend, you likely won’t see them that often after you break up, which is decidedly not the case for a colleague. So while it might work out with a colleague, and the odds aren’t even that bad, more caution is warranted.

Of course, it’s probably not terrible advice to tell everyone in a breakup to treat their soon-to-be ex as if they will one day be your manager. It’s just not likely that everyone will be able to follow through.

I'm sure there is a connection to the Franklin quote, but I surely can't see it.

>Changing jobs can see you lose your entire 'support network'

I have a wild tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that all corporate social events and activities are designed to foster this kind of 'support network' to discourage employees from leaving. I wondered why so many people stayed away from those when I started my first job.

yeah, I've also made a couple good friends from work; I don't think such an extreme position as GP is reasonable. I do think it's important to be extra careful with boundaries for work friends though. as a general rule, I don't let my work friends see me do anything I wouldn't do in front of my boss. it's a good heuristic and you never know, someday they might actually be your boss!

I read this as a warning that while people at work may be "friendly" with you, they are not "friends", necessarily, though they certainly can become them. This means that one must be careful confiding certain comments or thoughts with people who are friendly, or you may find yourself thrown under the bus or find this information enter the public domain at your workplace. Young people may be particularly primed for this oversharing, and I think the warning is that it should always be carefully considered.

A place I worked with an office of ~120 had at least 5 couples who met there eventually get married, and there are definitely friend groups among people who worked there.

So I'd say it depends; just go into it knowing making the friends isn't the same as when you're in school.

Ye it is strange concept. You make friends among classmates and parents childrens when you are young etc and that is a predetermined selection of candidates, why not at work?

If I would make a friend among co-workers, surely it would not end if any of us switch jobs? As in ex-student friends. Put in another way if you lose your friends from changing jobs they were not your friends.

I totally agree and your point reminds of a guy named noah glass who started twitter but got betrayed by his own so called work friend

As a general rule it works. Work friends are not friends. There are exceptions but don't expect anything.

This is all bad advice for this kid IMO. He's 19 and working as a research assistant, presumably part-time. I did that in college too. The people were nice and there was never a need to be at all guarded. The best thing he can do is get used to working on a schedule and try to figure out what interests him.

I couldn’t agree more.

The original post is a great example of why it’s dangerous to ask for advice on the internet. It often(not always) trends towards heavy handed and extreme views. But in real life, extreme views and stances are rarely the right course of action.

I agree. The advice is good for some environments, but too cynical for someone starting his career. Six out of those seven are about guarding against bad actors. I'm sure the author is trying to spare the person asking the question from some of the experiences that they went through, but default mistrust is not a good way to start a career (or any relationship for that matter).

Has the parent post been edited? Because I don't see what bad advice you are referring to here.

If you are working among people you trust, then this is all the better for learning an effective communication style, including saying 'no' or standing your ground. It's a safer environment than you will encounter later.

In my experience, 'nice' and 'not guarded' people in modern academia might only be like that because they are confident that they have enough power to get their way if you hit a point of disagreement. So, it's not always a good thing for you.

Unless the stakes are so high that you can't afford to mess up, the best way to "learn a communication style" is to do whatever comes naturally and wait to see what kinds of problems come up. Since the stakes are as low as they can be, I think a 19 year old's energy would be better spent on the sorts of things that will naturally draw their attention, namely the challenges of doing knowledge work on demand and the learning associated with the job itself.

This is just my take. I can say for sure that trying to learn about office politics would have been a terrible way for me to spend my time at 19. YMMV.

Agree. The key skillset I needed to learn was to get along with people. Being nerds, we think we are always right. Hello! The truth is that there is often no one true answer. Learn to bite one's tongue. Still hard for me to do - but I look at my easy-going my friends and see that they have had a smoother journey through life, maintaining their jobs for much longer than me.

> 1) Take copious notes (in whatever format works for you).

Documentation is always key. And notes about experiences is also important. Check on this one.

> 2) Confirm managers decisions with a recap email (especially when you disagree with them).

This is always important. I discussed a lot to with people in higher ranks than me to find for the perfect fit for a project. Check on this one.

> 3) Understand that while you may not like politics (I don't) knowing how the game is played allows you to mostly stay out of it.

Yeah I stay in the mainstream part, and just vote if there is something to vote on. But it is just a decade where keeping up with politics will just drive you nuts.

> 4) Work time is work time, learn to be productive and then go home and switch off.

That's something I really need to learn. For me it is really hard to switch off my head.

> 5) Work friends are NOT friends.

Always true. I mean you can meet with them for lunch etc., but it will always be about work.

> 6) Learn to say 'No' in a way that doesn't ruffle feathers but does result in the no case.

Also know your weaknesses and don't lie about them. This will save a lot of nerves.

> 7) If something seems interesting, go for it - all the best experiences in my working life have resulted from stepping outside my comfort zone.

Also something I need to learn. For me it is really hard to step out of my comfort zone.

> That's something I really need to learn. For me it is really hard to switch off my head.

Find a hobby that requires focus but isn't your day job.

If you are focussing on rebuilding a motorcycle you aren't worrying about that project that is going to go late because the stakeholder is MIA or is present and their intelligence is MIA.

For me it's Motorcycles, Cycling, Chess and Reading but for you it could be painting, woodwork whatever - if you are a developer try to pick something away from a screen or that has screen work be the ancillary part - there is a therapy in sitting outside on a sunny day working on a bike that I can't find anywhere else.

Boy are these good advice.

> Work friends are NOT friends.

This is very hard for people to learn, including me, but it will make you much happier.

And, I'd add something that someone else said:

8) The most important determiner of how happy you are is your choice of life partner.

strong disagree, mostly because my life partner of 20+ years is someone who I worked with at my first job out of uni.

When you are young and in your first real job my experience is your best friends often are work friends. It's pretty natural to do things outside of work with the same people you really enjoy working with.

I think the main advice given is that work friends can be real friends, but not all friends should be work friends. It's about "diversifying" who you spend time with because your relationship with your employer is not the same as with your friends.

Only one thing I can add - start thinking if you want to work on cool stuff or make a career. There will be overlap but the two will significantly diverge at some point.