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Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by ex3ndr on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:29PM (#23479719)
How on the earth such lobbism is legal?
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by skrebbel on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:52PM (#23480678)
Personally I think the more interesting question is "where on earth is such lobbyism legal".

Clearly in the US. I have the idea that in at least some European countries, it's less prevalent and definitely less public / blatant. Not entirely sure though, eg we Dutch like to think our country isn't very corrupt but somehow we just don't seem to notice when our ex ministers get cushy jobs at the bigcos they helped to deregulate.

I think the US is kind of unique in how obscenely public the corruption is. Elected judges who fund their campaings with money from companies they help win trials, super PACs, the list seems endless. No wonder y'all are libertarians.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by Youden on Thursday June 11, 2020 @03:18PM (#23492376)
> we Dutch like to think our country isn't very corrupt but somehow we just don't seem to notice when our ex ministers get cushy jobs at the bigcos they helped to deregulate.

I don't think that's necessarily an indication of corruption. Being a minister (or other high-level official) gives you a lot of fairly unique experience and knowledge that could be quite valuable to a corporation.

Of course it absolutely can be corruption, I just don't think that ministers moving to industry can be taken as evidence on its own.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by tracker1 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:14PM (#23481552)
I was definitely much more communist/socialist leaning when I was younger. The more I experienced how corrupt government systems can get, the more libertarian I became... been registered LP for a long while now.

I now believe that the best way to reduce government corruption is to reduce government. I also feel that government support for corporations should also be limited, and corporations should be carved out as a "non-living entity" class separate from personhood.

I'm more pragmatic that the more an-cap side of things, I feel that the government should at least orchestrate essential infrastructure, and that should include internet, telecom and roads/highways. Most of that PoV is rooted in domestic security.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by sgt101 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:39PM (#23481812)
what's your view on healthcare? I feel it's essential infrastructure - but is that your sense?
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by scohesc on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:59PM (#23482059)
I know you asked another user but figure I'd offer some input as someone who sees themselves as more libertarian in belief structure. I agree with you on healthcare needing to be essential infrastructure.

However, it's a bit of a sticky, dividing part for a lot of libertarians - especially the more dedicated believers. You get the ones that are just so driven to "gub'mint don't tread on me!", and you get the ones that understand that any mindset or belief is not bulletproof in theory and/or in practice and need to build safeguards in place.

In an ideal, perfect world to a lot of libertarians (again, this is subjective) - there wouldn't be a need for any government ran programs. That will never, EVER happen in my opinion. There will always still be people who just are not educated, intelligent, lucky, skillful, advantageous (whatever qualifier anyone picks to use) enough to succeed or to be able to have an acceptable standard of living independently. We need to have some sort of safety net in place. What that net is, I'm not educated enough to offer an opinion or thoughts on specifically.

Rest assured that there's a LOT of libertarians that understand that "shit happens" and there should be systems in place to handle these edge cases.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by lend000 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @09:59PM (#23484505)
As another non-OP libertarian leaning commenter taking your off-topic bait, no, I don't think it's essential infrastructure. Healthcare didn't even exist 100 years ago beyond what you can find in any first-aid kit today, and we certainly aren't anywhere close to having a surplus of it available.

As I've commented before, people regularly oversimplify this problem as socialized vs private healthcare without considering why American healthcare is so broken. If you look carefully at the problems, you see that they won't go away if the government replaces private insurance and expands Medicare for everyone. These problems include a tremendous shortage of doctors [0]. Even Canada and the UK have more doctors per capita, and they are known for extremely high wait times (the jokes of the socialized medicine countries, so to speak). There are a number of possible reasons for this, most notably the hassle of occupational licensing (12-14 years of expensive college + 'indentured servitude' residency in the US).

Nonetheless, American healthcare science is still ahead of the curve and subsidizes socialized countries -- ~60% of all new drugs between 2001-2010 were invented in the US, and foreign dignitaries of socialized medicine countries often still get important procedures done in the US [1]. It would be interesting to see how the R&D dynamic plays out if America loses its market incentive to innovate in the space, and no other developed countries have the financial incentive left.

[0] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.PHYS.ZS?end=2018....

[1] https://xconomy.com/seattle/2014/09/02/which-countries-excel....

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by tracker1 on Saturday June 13, 2020 @05:53PM (#23513103)
Pragmatically speaking I have a few thoughts that would generally improve things without raising spending, and decreasing government red tape...

1. I would like to see the spending the government currently does regarding healthcare (govt employees, elected officials, medicare, medicaid, va, etc) rolled into a non-profit healthcare corporation. It's important to include the government officials and staffing here, as they get the same as everyone else to discourage tiered services.

2. From there, I would make it a requirement that Insurance Corporations act and negotiate as a fiduciary on behalf of their clients. One of the serious lapses in the Obamacare legislation that has let insurance companies largely not try to negotiate prices down in order to raise the oceans in terms of costs/profits.

3. I would seriously reform/eliminate extension patents. (competition)

4. I would make dual-sourcing a licensing requirement from the FDA. (security + competition)

5. I would make 50% US production for all medications a requirement for FDA approved use (security).

6. Any company can purchase coverage policies from the Non-profit insurance corp that covers govt employees and current welfare coverage programs.

7. Require no more than a 20% pricing variance between customers in a 15 month window for a given procedure by a medical provider. (no dual-books for insurance covered and private pay)

While there are other steps that can be done... part of it is to merge and adjust spending directly based on current spending, but having a non-profit corp that also covers govt employees is a baseline. By breaking it off, you can allow for a stronger level of competition of services.

Reducing patent protections, and making dual sourcing and partial domestic production requirements you again encourage competition. The requirement for dual-sourcing is partly security and partly to ensure competition.

Now, this is emphatically not a Libertarian ideal, and would not cover everyone, but what it would do is expand competition and reduce incentives for poor behavior. It should have the side effect of lowered costs over time. From there, individual states could create their own expansions or services beyond this, as could specific cities.

Over time, I'd prefer to see the FDA shrunk and sane guidelines in their place... Allowing for input based on relatively trusted testing to allow/disallow certain medications and reduce the incentives to produce less-good drugs only to expand patent exclusivity.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by tracker1 on Saturday June 13, 2020 @05:55PM (#23513113)
NOTE: I've posted this list multiple times and written all the congress-critters, but never really receive much if any response. They're specifically incentivized by one of the largest contributing blocks to political campaigns...

It would take a groundswell of support for such actions.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by jedimastert on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:58PM (#23480060)
So this is a thought that I see, and I feel like I have a different definition of "lobbying". The lobbying that I'm aware of is just paying people to go bother Senators. What am I missing that would make that illegal?
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by fragmede on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:16PM (#23481567)
The nuance is in where the ethical line gets crossed for "go bother senators". Having a meeting with a senator? Entirely reasonable. How much does it cost get that meeting though? Senators are very busy, y'know, so maybe they'll agree to meet after a donation to their campaign fund.

Senators are people though and they have to eat, so maybe having a lunch meeting with the senator would be okay? Paying for a reasonably priced lunch for the senator? Say $50? Each? How about a $300 lunch? At the country club? with a round of golf after? Dinner? After dinner entertainment? And what if that entertainment "happens" to be strippers and cocaine?

The senator needs to get re-elected though. So in addition to political donations to their campaign directly, donations could be made to "totally definitely not coordinated" SuperPACs supporting them.

That's before getting into the fact that lobbyists have no obligation to present a fair and balanced picture of the situation. It's easy to sell a narrative that doesn't reflect reality if there's no one to challenge you; you can just leave out any and all inconvenient facts. Additionally, huge corporations are able to threaten layoffs of the senator's constituents.

To be clear, some of this stuff is highly regulated. Eg we couldn't bring doughnuts to a morning meeting with NASA because they're government officials and that could amount to bribery. Lobbying just has a very complex set of laws to skirt - and if you're a professional lobbyist, figuring out how to skirt those laws in order to buy influence is literally your job.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by donarb on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:13PM (#23482182)
It's also important to remember that most lobbying is not taking a Senator to lunch, it's emailing/calling their staffs with information about a particular piece of legislation. Staffs of these politicians deal much more with lobbyists day to day than their bosses.
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by _-david-_ on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @06:04PM (#23482699)
>we couldn't bring doughnuts to a morning meeting with NASA because they're government officials and that could amount to bribery.

Were you a government employee? If so were you in a different agency? Can NASA employees bring doughnuts for other NASA employees?

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by itsoktocry on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @03:29PM (#23481050)
Exactly. This is how legislation is passed: you send people to talk to the lawmakers about your issue and convince them to do something about it. Like everything else in this world, having money to spend helps.

Of course, because we're talking about money and people and relationships, there's inherently some corruption that seeps through, but most of the laws (and lobbying) is pretty boring stuff. Without lobbying most lawmakers would have no clue about some issues. How could they?

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by fwip on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:39PM (#23481816)
Lawmakers could seek out experts to ask for advice, rather than the experts coming to them. They could read papers, or have their staff do so. They could send staff to talk to people about the issues they're facing.
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by itsoktocry on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:24PM (#23482314)
>Lawmakers could seek out experts to ask for advice, rather than the experts coming to them

I guess they could spend all their time researching random problems, but lobbying helps vet important issues. They are representing a constituency, after all.

And, in reality, good politicians do do their own research, and many even write bills and promote policy that they genuinely believe in (even when it agrees with lobbyists).

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by lend000 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @03:59PM (#23481371)
What's the fundamental difference between a lobbyist for a cause you like "save the whales" and a cause you don't like "make noncompetes enforceable"? There will always be those acting to corrupt and change the system -- the important part is to have a system that is designed to resist corruption (with things like fundamental rights like the Bill of Rights and courts to analyze and rule on the validity of laws) and attempting to elect politicians that don't introduce legislation that goes against those laws in the first place.
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by rurp on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @06:23PM (#23482886)
>What's the fundamental difference between a lobbyist for a cause you like "save the whales" and a cause you don't like "make noncompetes enforceable"?

The difference is money. Lobbying is effective for groups that have a lot to spend. So for almost any pro-business issue lobbying can have a strong effect. That might be ok, but there's no similarly effective mechanism to push issues that don't result in direct profits to the people that care about them.

There are countless issues that are very important and should be addressed, but that don't have any direct financial beneficiaries and so are often ignored in US politics.

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by dathinab on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @01:38PM (#23479828)
Because of previously done lobbyism...
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by otterley on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @09:25PM (#23484289)
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects, among other things, the right to peaceably assemble, and the right to petition the Government for the redress of grievances. Being able to get together and ask for the Government to do something is core to the American identity; and it protects the rights of Black Lives Matter supporters as much as it protects the rights of a company to request laws be enacted or changed.

(Disclaimer: I work for AWS but my opinion is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.)

Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by danharaj on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:26PM (#23480411)
The boardroom and the legislature are like one room divided by a curtain.
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by dboreham on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:49PM (#23482551)
Because the USA is a highly corrupt country, in case this wasn't previously obvious.
Re:AWS Ruins Own Attempt at Sabotage by jorblumesea on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:51PM (#23480666)
Well if we called it by it's real name, it would be much more apparent: bribery.