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Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by julianeon on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @08:27PM (#23398240)
I don't understand why this isn't treated like domain name hijacking, though.

Suppose you want to go to McDonald's. I buy the McDonald's domain name. I put a credit card form on my site, and I "deliver" McDonald's to you. I charge a $40 surcharge for the privilege.

There is no way in hell that McDonald's would have to go begging at realmcdonald's.com because of my shenanigans. They'd have no patience for this bullshit. In real life they'd sicc a DMCA notice and a ton of lawyers on this and I'd lose my webhost and the sheriff would come visit me and who knows what else. They'd get McDonald's.com fast enough to make your head spin, and I'd be pushed out of that business.

Why is it different for restaurants?

Same problem: instead of me it's a company, and instead of McDonald's it's a small restaurant. But the principle is the same.

In domain name hijacking, it's presumed wrong because customers think they're reaching McDonald's when they're really calling me. In the GrubHub case it's exactly the same thing.

I don't understand why it's wrong when I do it, but it's not a problem GrubHub does. After all, McDonald's doesn't deliver, and I may own a very fine delivery business, but I'm still not allowed to coast off their name for my own business.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by heavyset_go on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:00AM (#23399532)
> I don't understand why it's wrong when I do it, but it's not a problem GrubHub does.

The same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal taxi, but when Uber does it, it's fine. And the same reason that you'd be arrested for running an illegal hotel, but when AirBnB does it, it's okay.

Uber and AiBnb spend a lot of money lobbying governments at every level, and on marketing to make what they do seem acceptable.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by Can_Not on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:31AM (#23402221)
I dont find this convincing, taxis are mad because it's competition, the restaurants are mad because its impersonation. The restaurants should be entitled to civil suits to reclaim damages while in the Uber/AirBnB situation its more about regulations that the government failed to enforce.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by heavyset_go on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @03:31PM (#23407640)
I agree, however liability should go much further than just civil damages, and should enter the territory of criminal fraud and trademark infringement.

If I impersonated Disney online and used their trademarks on my website, the FBI would raid my home, I'd be in prison and courts would bar me from ever touching a computer again.

Restaurants should be able to call the cops and report fraud, have it investigated and stopped, and have their cases passed on to federal authorities if necessary. This doesn't happen.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by xupybd on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:57AM (#23401424)
Not to mention Spotify or the early days of YouTube. Money is power, with enough of it you can bend the law.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by rightbyte on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:42AM (#23401646)
Spotify didn't have any fuckoff money in the start and the streamed stuff they got from the Piratebay. The authorities in Sweden didn't notice since they Spotify also tried at the same time to get proper contracts I guess and the music industry seemed to look through their fingers.

Youtube is more strange since they illegally hosted IP for a long while.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by catalogia on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @10:12AM (#23403499)
> Youtube is more strange since they illegally hosted IP for a long while.

They still do, their ContentID system has a lot of holes.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by chongli on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @09:32PM (#23398720)
They'd get McDonald's.com fast enough to make your head spin, and I'd be pushed out of that business.

If McDonald's were a mom & pop restaurant and you were a multi-billion dollar, VC-backed startup, then you can be sure McDonald's would not be able to do this so easily.

That's the difference.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by izzydata on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @08:56AM (#23402792)
That is specifically what he is alluding to.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by MattGaiser on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @08:39PM (#23398335)
The Grubhubs and DoorDashes are not logistic services but also marketing services. Most companies sign a marketing agreement with them.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by mandelbrotwurst on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @08:55PM (#23398459)
I think I remember reading that they often set all of this up prior to speaking with the owner / without getting their approval and then basically go to them after the fact and say "look how much traffic we've been bringing in for you"

Edit: Ah, yup - see link to eater.com post elsewhere in the thread

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by MattGaiser on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @10:07PM (#23398934)
In that case the owner is then getting the full price for the food though.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by Retric on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @10:14PM (#23398974)
It’s still destroying their reputation by charging more than the food is ‘worth’. Aka the expectation is higher for an 8$ burger than a 5$ one.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by throwaway2048 on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @10:14PM (#23398975)
Except now grubhub et all basically controls their web presence through vastly superior SEO, and if they don't agree to grubhub's terms, they basically disappear off the internet.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by ddalex on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:54AM (#23401699)
Except it would cost grubhub money to run an uncooperative client, so why would they ?
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by Can_Not on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:36AM (#23402257)
It did cost them money to spoof an unknowing client, but they make money having a credit card form collecting fees before anyone else knows whats going on.
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by mandelbrotwurst on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @10:29PM (#23399064)
Sure. Is it not wrong to fraudulently impersonate someone else's brand / company?
Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by YokoZar on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @07:30AM (#23402216)
Reselling is generally legal. There are no particular trademark concerns when it's ultimately the genuine goods getting to the consumer at a different price.

It's very easy to understand why consumers and businesses would be annoyed by this behavior, though, and it may be deceptive or immoral in other ways.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by amelius on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @06:31AM (#23401898)
But these contracts are in a way extortionate. If a large fraction of restaurant owners use these services, you better use them too!

How did they ever get into existence then, you may ask? Simple, VC money ...

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by tick_tock_tick on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @08:34PM (#23398304)
I mean you can absolutely do your first businesses model as long as you don't claim to actually be McDonald's your fine.

The issue here is they agreed to allow GrubHub to pretend to be them. You'd never get that deal with McDonald's since they'd just not agree to it since they know it's a horrible idea but tons of people running restaurants don't understand they are getting a raw deal.

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by CharlesW on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @08:52PM (#23398436)
> The issue here is they agreed to allow GrubHub to pretend to be them.

Sadly, that's false. GrubHub is a bad actor.

https://www.eater.com/2019/10/30/20940107/grubhub-to-add-res...

Re:People think they're calling restaurants directly but Gru... by Dylan16807 on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @09:28PM (#23398697)
Those aren't the restaurants paying a fee. Non-partner restaurants are going to get full menu price.